[symos]

Hello everyone

I've been looking for a used I-pace for a while. I found one that ticked all the boxes like low mileage (less than 3.000 miles), relatively new (September 2019) and specs I want. It's also a Jaguar Approved car from a Jaguar dealer, so this minimizes any risk.

However, when I asked for a detailed battery report, this is what I received:

Cell 1	89%​
Cell 2	85%​
Cell 3	89%​
Cell 4	87%​
Cell 5	84%​
Cell 6	84%​
Cell 7	84%​
Cell 8	84%​
Cell 9	82%​
Cell 10	84%​
Cell 11	82%​
Cell 12	84%​
Cell 13	82%​
Cell 14	82%​
Cell 15	82%​
Cell 16	82%​
Cell 17	82%​
Cell 18	82%​
Cell 19	85%​
Cell 20	85%​
Cell 21	84%​
Cell 22	88%​
Cell 23	88%​
Cell 24	85%​
Cell 25	87%​
Cell 26	85%​
Cell 27	87%​
Cell 28	87%​
Cell 29	88%​
Cell 30	85%​
Cell 31	89%​
Cell 32	87%​
Cell 33	84%​
Cell 34	87%​
Cell 35	88%​
Cell 36	85%​

This is an average of 85% and also quite unbalanced (82-89%).

To me, this doesn't look normal for a car a little over a year old and with such low mileage.

I know it's probably been sitting in the lot for a while (I guess without any charge cycles recently besides being charged before the test) and this should affect battery health. I also know some of that "damage" might be reverted after it's been charged/uncharged a few times.

But still, even when I take that into account, I wasn't expecting such a low number and I don't know how big of a difference the above might make.

I've also found another car which is quite cheaper because it has 27.000 miles. I preferred the "new" one, but if its battery is not in a corresponding "like new" state, then I guess I'll prefer the cheaper option.

What do you think?

 

[Pollo de muerte]

I had the same choice back in August: low milage dealer demo being sold as new with tax credit, or 20K 2019 FE used. The final cost on the 2019 FE was just a little lower considering the tax credit, but it had an excellent battery health report and the "new" one didn't (similar but not quite as bad as yours). The FE also was loaded with options.

You can see from my sig which way I went.

In the end, these batteries are warrantied very well, and I don't know if that battery health report is so bad that I'd run away if I liked the car otherwise.

Are you sure that the dealer allowed the car to fully charge and go through a cell balancing before the battery health report was run?

 

[symos]

Thanks @Pollo de muerte !

The thing is, you had the battery report for the FE beforehand, so it was an easier choice. I don't think I'll be able to get the battery report for the other car (the one with more miles) before I lose this one.

Regarding the tests, the first time the result was 81,5% (no analysis per cell) and I assume they hadn't even charged the car beforehand. This time I told them to charge it and leave it plugged in over the weekend in order to do the cell balancing.

I'm guessing they did, but still, it's been charged once after who knows how many months it was unplugged. I'm sure it will get better after a few charge/discharge cycles, but it still feels like this number is not normal, as I said in the original post.

On the other hand, I'd hate to lose this opportunity if it's something that will improve (as much as it should) down the line.

//edit: To provide a bit more info, the higher mileage car (which is also 7 months older) is an HSE vs SE for the newer one and it's also 7.5K cheaper! So we're talking about a very big difference. So it would be a no brainer otherwise, the only reason I'd prefer the newer one would be if it had a "like new" battery. But this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Pollo de muerte]

See if you can get the owner of the used car to do the following:

• Charge the car to full.

• Power up the vehicle without foot on brake

•Press brake and accelerator fully at the same time for at least 10 seconds (you'll see a change in range guesstimate)

•Release pedals

That procedure will change the estimated range to factory parameters and ignore recent driving style.

If the reported mileage on a full charge is above 240, then the battery should be in decent shape.

That is not nearly as good as real battery health report, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Qtown charger]

Hello everyone

I've been looking for a used I-pace for a while. I found one that ticked all the boxes like low mileage (less than 3.000 miles), relatively new (September 2019) and specs I want. It's also a Jaguar Approved car from a Jaguar dealer, so this minimizes any risk.

However, when I asked for a detailed battery report, this is what I received:

Cell 1	89%​
Cell 2	85%​
Cell 3	89%​
Cell 4	87%​
Cell 5	84%​
Cell 6	84%​
Cell 7	84%​
Cell 8	84%​
Cell 9	82%​
Cell 10	84%​
Cell 11	82%​
Cell 12	84%​
Cell 13	82%​
Cell 14	82%​
Cell 15	82%​
Cell 16	82%​
Cell 17	82%​
Cell 18	82%​
Cell 19	85%​
Cell 20	85%​
Cell 21	84%​
Cell 22	88%​
Cell 23	88%​
Cell 24	85%​
Cell 25	87%​
Cell 26	85%​
Cell 27	87%​
Cell 28	87%​
Cell 29	88%​
Cell 30	85%​
Cell 31	89%​
Cell 32	87%​
Cell 33	84%​
Cell 34	87%​
Cell 35	88%​
Cell 36	85%​

This is an average of 85% and also quite unbalanced (82-89%).

To me, this doesn't look normal for a car a little over a year old and with such low mileage.

I know it's probably been sitting in the lot for a while (I guess without any charge cycles recently besides being charged before the test) and this should affect battery health. I also know some of that "damage" might be reverted after it's been charged/uncharged a few times.

But still, even when I take that into account, I wasn't expecting such a low number and I don't know how big of a difference the above might make.

I've also found another car which is quite cheaper because it has 27.000 miles. I preferred the "new" one, but if its battery is not in a corresponding "like new" state, then I guess I'll prefer the cheaper option.

What do you think?

To me the questions are warranty and price/features (I see your later post regarding the two choices - if I understand correctly an older HSE for less but with 27k miles, or a newer SE with 3k miles but for more $$$).
Assuming you get the remaining warranty for both car and battery (5yrs with no more than 25% degradation), I would not worry about the battery health unless you plan on regular long distance trips. If that battery rpt is accurate (maybe, maybe not) it may reflect "one time" battery issues that won't get worse, or continued degradation in which case you'll have a warranty claim.
For a significant price drop from new ($30-40k price tag) I'd be very tempted. Anything in the $40-50k range once adjusted for the new car tax rebates is probably not worth considering. [While probably not happening anymore, forum members getting new in the $50-60k range, minus $7500 federal rebates and other state rebates, should be your benchmark]
Just my thoughts.🙂

 

[symos]

Thank both!

@Qtown charger
First of all, I'm in Europe, so prices are different. As I said, the HSE costs 7,5K less but is 7 months older (not a significant difference in my opinion) and has more miles (for which I also wouldn't care, besides any effect on battery).
Regarding warranty, both cars are under the "Jaguar Approved" program, which in Europe means 24 months warranty. So they both have the same warranty despite the 7 months difference in age, considering that the original manufacturer warranty in Europe is "only" 3 years.
As for the battery, I think here it's 30% degradation, not 25%.
Overall, I would only prefer the SE if its battery was "like new", otherwise I'd go for the HSE.

@Pollo de muerte
Thanks for the tip, I'll see if that's possible!

 

[Meldev##44]

Thanks @Pollo de muerte !
This time I told them to charge it and leave it plugged in over the weekend in order to do the cell balancing.

I know if I leave my charger plugged in, it just shuts off at full charge.
What is the purpose of leaving it plugged in?
So i was wondering how can it cell balance when the charger is off and not drawing any power?
Internal cell balancing with no external power? If so, then why not cell balance unplugged.

 

[symos]

I know if I leave my charger plugged in, it just shuts off at full charge.
What is the purpose of leaving it plugged in?
So i was wondering how can it cell balance when the charger is off and not drawing any power?
Internal cell balancing with no external power? If so, then why not cell balance unplugged.

Haha, please bear in mind that (as has become obvious by my question) I don't own an i-Pace yet (hopefully soon)! So I don't really know all the details about battery manamegent in practice, just from what I've been reading here.

However, having said that, it seems the Jaguar dealer knows even less than me. As I said the first time they didn't even charge the car before testing the battery! So I suggested that they should. When I also said that cell balancing is maybe something else that might affect the test, they said "ok, then we'll do the test on Monday" (it was a Friday).

So I assumed it was to leave the car plugged in for longer, but maybe I was wrong. No idea if they did anything and what that was.

 

[Qtown charger]

Thank both!

@Qtown charger
First of all, I'm in Europe, so prices are different. As I said, the HSE costs 7,5K less but is 7 months older (not a significant difference in my opinion) and has more miles (for which I also wouldn't care, besides any effect on battery).
Regarding warranty, both cars are under the "Jaguar Approved" program, which in Europe means 24 months warranty.....

Sorry, I did not catch the location. That said, I feel my point regarding the battery warranty is still valid. As a used car more features at a lower price, albeit with more miles, would be more attractive to me unless the car looks used and abused.
As a point of reference, what % of a realistic walk off the lot new price car are you talking about?

 

[Ayepace]

There as been discussion on this. Either cell balancing happens as it charges, or it happens after reaching 100%. I have observed that on a level 2 charger, once it gets to 100% charge, it drops to 0 amps, then starts up again at low amperage for period of time. This may be cell balancing or something else going on.

This "after 100%" behaviour is not observed on level 3 chargers. They tend to stop and ask for the charger to be disconnected before the car might ask to start charging again.

sysmos is not in the US so the experience may be different based on the charging ability there. Is it 3 phase 240V, unlike US single phase 240V for level 2 charging?

We also don't know if the BCCM and BECM have the most current software versions.

Given the use of adaptive logic, it might take several discharge/charge cycles to get a true picture of the health for a car that has been gathering dust for a while.

 

[Meldev##44]

I recently had my battery tested and they did not charge to 100% either before testing.
The test showed an average 92.5%.
Since no mention of battery temperature I wonder what the difference would be if tested with battery temp. of 0 degrees?
Just a thought.

 

[symos]

As a point of reference, what % of a realistic walk off the lot new price car are you talking about?

The HSE is at 50%, while the SE is at about 62%.

That's off MSRP. Not really sure what the actual price you could get for a new car is, I'm using the MSRP I see in the configurator as a reference.

The test showed an average 92.5%.

At how many miles, if I may?

 

[Meldev##44]

Odometer at around 8743 at time of service.