[sciencegeek]

Ok so I've been disparaging the low-wattage charger (standard 110V outlet) that JLR supplies with the iPace. Because the rate of charging is abysmally low.

[Hold that thought]

I carpooled with a very good friend of mine on Saturday to San Francisco. He comes from Santa Cruz with a Bolt that wasn't quite fully charged. Getting back the same night would be tight. But he plugged in his silly 110V charger at our friend's place for 5 hours while we were watching terrrrrrribbble football games and he had enough to get home.

[Hold that thought]

I asked him why he hadn't charged it fully. He said "I don't have a charger that charges fast enough. I only drive a few tens of miles most days so this thing is enough for me most of the time."
That's because his charger adds roughly 40 miles per overnight session, or about 20% of battery capacity. This makes it feasible to oscillate between roughly 30% and 60% most days by just plugging it in when we get home and leaving it overnight.

[Hold that thought]

It's ideal for the battery to not be discharged fully and charged fully. See for example our thread:
https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/377-technical-discussion/2315-lithium-battery-longevity.html
and the article it's based on:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Clearly it's advantageous for battery life if it's maintained at around 50%.

[Putting it all together]

For those of us who drive for just 20-40 miles each day, the 110V cable is ideal because it allows you to just plug in and forget. You need to plan if you're going on a longer trip so I'm still going to have my mobile cable and a 14-50 Nema outlet for faster charging .. but I bet I will have it plugged into the 110V most days. Isn't that ironic?

 

[Time2Roll]

Not sure about I-Pace but LEAF has about 350 watts overhead to run the computer, cooling pump etc. during charging. Assuming same you will be using 1200 watts from the wall to get 950 watts into the battery or close to 30% loss.

Day in, day out I think I would use the timer to shorten the charge time vs an extended run on L1.

Having said that I did use my L1 charger on my LEAF back in the good ol' days when LAX allowed free prime parking and free charging for EVs. The L2 plugs were 4x over subscribed but you could park up a floor and use an extension to plug into the wall outlet next to the elevator. Easy to get a full charge when in Hawaii for a week.

 

[dtgsrq]

I tried it the day I brought home my I-Pace (I hadn't installed my ChargePoint Home 25 yet) and laughed after I got 4 miles in 2 hours! Now it's tucked away in the hidden part of the trunk for that rare moment I'm desperate enough to plug into a 110V 15A outlet while away.
Yes there may be a segment of the market that could plug in all weekend (60 hours) and another 12-14 hours every night and 'get by' with the 110V charger for their daily commute, but I imagine that's a pretty small group.

 

[sciencegeek]

I tried it the day I brought home my I-Pace (I hadn't installed my ChargePoint Home 25 yet) and laughed after I got 4 miles in 2 hours! Now it's tucked away in the hidden part of the trunk for that rare moment I'm desperate enough to plug into a 110V 15A outlet while away.
Yes there may be a segment of the market that could plug in all weekend (60 hours) and another 12-14 hours every night and 'get by' with the 110V charger for their daily commute, but I imagine that's a pretty small group.

It's that bad really? It's so much worse than the Bolt's? My buddy gets 4 miles/hr ... can't imagine the iPace is much less. Do the math, even if it's 3 miles/hr, it's enough for a 40 mile commute on a regular day!

 

[epirali]

Well I use my L1 chargers all the time when visiting friend who lives 50 miles from me. If I stay 12 hours I can get 36 to 50 mile range back depending on the car (Tesla being the worst in charge rate but I haven’t gotten my I Pace yet so can’t say). Cars that allow drawing full 15 amp obviously do better also, some will only allow 12.

And it allows for weekend visits because essentially I can gain range while idle, without it I may have to take an ICE depending on initial charge.

And honestly I know a few people who would buy an electric car like the Bolt and with their weekly needs can easily stick to L1 charging at home. Their driving pattern means they could make up lost charge during the week on idle days where car stays home mostly.

 

[McRat]

Due to Time of Use tariff windows, many people are better off charging at 7 kW in the TOU period.

 

[sciencegeek]

Due to Time of Use tariff windows, many people are better off charging at 7 kW in the TOU period.

Pennies

Most charging will still happen during cheap times if you plug it into the 110V after dinner or when you go to bed

 

[phila]

Charging an I-Pace on a plain socket can have some damaging effects if done often and long enough at the same socket. There has been some issues with people simply using wall outlets to charge their EVs (any EV, not specifically the I-Pace) which has resulted in fires, etc so I do not charge in my garage until I get a proper charger setup which of couse is also a big investment. And obvously its incredibly slow as well so really not worth the cost of power for such little mile gainage, especially when the battery is below 80%.

In addition do remember that if fast charging a battery (any EV battery) the charge speed generally starts dropping once the battery gets around 80% charge. At this point its pointless to do fast charging as the speed can drop to a very slow speed, similar to what your normal socket will give you at certain points. That is of course if you are paying for charge by the minute like we do here on public stations in Norway. I have managed my I-Pace with just public charging until now and it is the only car we have for the family. We do not drive that much daily however but since the battery does hold a lot of charge we can manage at least for now. Tesla of course also is in this battery range, with the major advantage being the Tesla Supercharger network that they have. But in Europe we have a new Ionity network with 350kwh chargers being built in many countries which will also be like the Tesla Supercharger network but just not for Tesla but for all of the others with a CCS charger.

I personally think that Tesla will eventually open up their super chargers for other EVs as well, at least in certain countries. I cannot see Tesla being sustainable with their current business model in the long run and may use their supercharger stations to make extra profit from non-Tesla EVs as well. Just my personal opinion based on where I live (Norway) and what I hear about Tesla.

So to answer the original question that the main advantage Tesla has is their superchargers I would say yes, but at least in Europe that advantage is already being offset by a similar setup. Unfortunately im not to up to date with the state of the charging infrastructure in North America but am simply thinking that something like Ionity will also be happening there throughout many states sometime.

 

[dtgsrq]

Electrify America is one of the major fast charger (100-350kwH) networks already live in the U.S. It's worth checking out their map of existing and planned U.S. charging stations. While there is not one coming near my home (yet), I see one in each of the more distant Florida cities I visit (Tampa, Orlando, and Daytona) where access to a "fast fill-up" would be useful on an extended day trip. And we're only 1/2 month into 2019! I'm confident that with the growth of EVs, and the corresponding growth of charging stations (like those of Electrify America and others), in the future most of us will be laughing off the range/charging concerns we had when ordering our I-Pace. I, too, have speculated that Tesla may begin 'sharing' their supercharger network with other EVs for additional revenue, or eventually it may be overtaken by companies like Electrify America serving the entire EV population. It will be fun over the next quarter century to watch gas stations dry up (literally) while the charging network (and its myriad of vendors) slowly replaces it.

 

[McRat]

Pennies

Most charging will still happen during cheap times if you plug it into the 110V after dinner or when you go to bed

You are located in a somewhat unique area for California, a subsidized non-TOU, non-EV region. The rest of this post is for people who live in EV Time-Of-Use (TOU) regions where they exist, both in the US and abroad.

Let's look at San Francisco. Charging at 2pm-9pm is .48-.33/kWh (summer/winter, PG&E, EV-A) and 11pm-7am is .12/kWh. This can mean a savings of about $500/yr for the average commuter to stay out of the high TOU times.


Sidebar -

The EV TOU Bonus!

There is an added bonus, which you can get as an EV owner. Switch to the EV TOU plan. Now, program everything you can (pool pump, washer, drier, dishwasher, etc) into the Super Off Peak late night window. For many people, this change will charge your car for free, an $1,100 a year savings.

Free money once you figure out how to access 240v power. It can be as simple as creating a 10 ga extension cord that feeds off two circuit breakers on opposite sides of the panel, or as expensive as heck. I do my own wiring (shock therapy), so it doesn't cost me much to rig 240v. I have four 240v outlets for EV/RV charging at home.

If you are worried about doing your own electrical work, some California utilities (SCE is one) are paying the costs of a professional L2 installation. But it must be a licensed contractor and have a permit pulled.

 

[gbillcb]

Rate of charge using 110 volt granny charger?

Can anybody tell me the rate of charge using the Jag supplied granny charger?
I have a proper L2 Chargepoint at home but have to spend a weekend with relatives who do not have a charger. I will be parked there for 48 hours and wonder if the granny will give me a full charge?

 

[Dantrium]

Can anybody tell me the rate of charge using the Jag supplied granny charger?
I have a proper L2 Chargepoint at home but have to spend a weekend with relatives who do not have a charger. I will be parked there for 48 hours and wonder if the granny will give me a full charge?

It's a 10Amp charger. It may be able to make it to 100% in 48 hours if you start charging at 50%...

 

[epirali]

Let’s point out that we in the US have 110/120 instead of 220/240. This means on a typical circuit (15 amp max rated), even at 12 amp, we are talking about 1.3. KW/hour charging max. Add that to the fact that at 110 the charging is significantly less efficient than 220 due to losses means any charger “on the road” won’t be efficient. So its not just what Jag provided.

I bought an EVSE from Amazon that can do both 110 and 220. Even if Jag had provided that unless someone has a “drier plug” in their garage it doesn’t help when visiting.

 

[Timbo]

Can anybody tell me the rate of charge using the Jag supplied granny charger?
I have a proper L2 Chargepoint at home but have to spend a weekend with relatives who do not have a charger. I will be parked there for 48 hours and wonder if the granny will give me a full charge?

I read somewhere that it is 40 hours to charge from the 110v, so I think you should be fine.

 

[sciencegeek]

I read somewhere that it is 40 hours to charge from the 110v, so I think you should be fine.

Let's please not propagate inaccurate information. Please see Dantrium's and epirali's responses above.

 

[Dantrium]

I read somewhere that it is 40 hours to charge from the 110v, so I think you should be fine.

No, it is much longer than 40 hours. If you go back and look at a post I had last November, I had to charge my car with the 110v EVSE because my L2 hadn’t arrived. I believe I plugged in with ~20% charge and InControl maxes out at 59 hours to full charge and displayed that for about at least 12 hours or more. I don’t recall exactly, but it was well over 72 hours plugged in without use.

 

[Time2Roll]

It puts in 1 kW and the battery is 80 kW. Math is hard.

 

[Dantrium]

It puts in 1 kW and the battery is 80 kW. Math is hard.

Too bad it isn’t completely linear from start to finish, I suppose that’s hard too

 

[Time2Roll]

At 1kW I bet it is pretty close to linear.

 

[CyberSlug]

I was using the granny charger for a couple of months before the circuit for my Juicebox got installed. A full charge from 6% took about 90 hours.