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A healthy discussion is underway in my "Hi from Toronto" thread in which some have speculated that the award winning Jag's lifespan could be cut short by slowing 2020 sales volumes and lower service revenues at dealerships (leading to lackluster sales efforts).

I find this very hard to believe. Firstly, this is not a swing and a miss for the company. The World Car Awards triple winner (Jaguar I-Pace, the World Car of the Year, World Car Design of the Year, and World Green Car) disappearing. There are too many enthusiasts out there that are already fanboys.

And it wasn't a fluke. The Jaguar I-Pace as the 2020 Canadian Utility Vehicle of the Year. And this was a 'Repeat Championship.' In 2019, the I-Pace had the distinction of being the first battery electric vehicle ever to win an overall Automotive Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) award -- unprecedented back-to-back overall wins.

So, many, many accolades the world over. Sure, there are discrete feature shortcomings that need to be addressed, yet the concept and platform is an outstanding success by any measure. A continuous improvement program after widespread recognition is a lot easier that failing on your first attempt and relaunching (Chevy Volt), or even ending up in the middle of the pack with an ok offering (hello Audi e-tron).

Those in the JLR business are scrappy underdogs and they play their hand well. The good news, a rising tide raises all ships. And the EV tide is rising, no doubt.

As discussed previously, California is moving aggressively to end the sale of fossil fuel burning vehicles. There are 2 million vehicles sold each year in the golden state, the same as in all of Canada. While California is the first state in America to set such a goal, countries and cities across Europe and Asia are moving in the same direction. In the I-Pace's birth-country, the UK is planning to end the sale of ICE's as early as a decade from now. (note: no one is coming for your gas-powered vehicle, you just won't be able to easily buy a new one).

So, a dealer may make more money servicing a gasoline burning Land Rover, but the senior leadership of JLR will be taking a medium to long-term view, and that view is electric. You're not going to abandon an Oscar winner because she appeared in a bad movie the following year.

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The problem is if the film sweeps a the Oscars but still nobody sees it because The Rock is blowing up ethnically obscure and unimaginatively bad guys in the next room over.

But I kid because nobody is going to theaters.

The Model Y Performance apparently rides poorly and has a loud cabin. But but but... Full self driving that you, apparently, have to constantly pay attention to. Because words mean nothing now.
 

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A healthy discussion is underway in my "Hi from Toronto" thread in which some have speculated that the award winning Jag's lifespan could be cut short by slowing 2020 sales volumes and lower service revenues at dealerships (leading to lackluster sales efforts).

I find this very hard to believe. Firstly, this is not a swing and a miss for the company. The World Car Awards triple winner (Jaguar I-Pace, the World Car of the Year, World Car Design of the Year, and World Green Car) disappearing. There are too many enthusiasts out there that are already fanboys.

And it wasn't a fluke. The Jaguar I-Pace as the 2020 Canadian Utility Vehicle of the Year. And this was a 'Repeat Championship.' In 2019, the I-Pace had the distinction of being the first battery electric vehicle ever to win an overall Automotive Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) award -- unprecedented back-to-back overall wins.

So, many, many accolades the world over. Sure, there are discrete feature shortcomings that need to be addressed, yet the concept and platform is an outstanding success by any measure. A continuous improvement program after widespread recognition is a lot easier that failing on your first attempt and relaunching (Chevy Volt), or even ending up in the middle of the pack with an ok offering (hello Audi e-tron).

Those in the JLR business are scrappy underdogs and they play their hand well. The good news, a rising tide raises all ships. And the EV tide is rising, no doubt.

As discussed previously, California is moving aggressively to end the sale of fossil fuel burning vehicles. There are 2 million vehicles sold each year in the golden state, the same as in all of Canada. While California is the first state in America to set such a goal, countries and cities across Europe and Asia are moving in the same direction. In the I-Pace's birth-country, the UK is planning to end the sale of ICE's as early as a decade from now. (note: no one is coming for your gas-powered vehicle, you just won't be able to easily buy a new one).

So, a dealer may make more money servicing a gasoline burning Land Rover, but the senior leadership of JLR will be taking a medium to long-term view, and that view is electric. You're not going to abandon an Oscar winner because she appeared in a bad movie the following year.

View attachment 4778


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The Ipace wasn't on my radar until I saw it at my local JLR dealer getting my LR4 serviced. Jag needs to promote it more.
 

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Wasn't sure where to post this message, but this thread seems appropriate so here goes...

I really liked my i-Pace. Took delivery of one of the very first ones in North Texas and absolutely loved the vehicle. In two years of driving, I never had any serious issues with it beyond the initial dead screens and random electronic surprises. Last month, one of the front shocks failed which was replaced by the dealer, but the vehicle was an overall winner in my experience.

Like so many i-Pace enthusiasts, I became increasingly annoyed and disappointed in JLR's lack of focus and marketing spent on the vehicle. I had a chance to participate in several focus groups and clearly shared my frustration. I also watched with increasing alarm at the shocking collapse of the i-Pace's resale value. I'm a frequent new-car buyer (every 2-2.5 years) and have leased my vehicles until my i-Pace purchase, which I made to get the tax advantages. With all this as background, while my vehicle was at the dealer for the shock absorber replacement, I asked for an offer to buy the car...the offer from my dealer was for less than half of what I paid. Pretty disheartening. I also tried one of the national "we'll buy your car" websites, knowing that the electric i-Pace was worth more in CA than in TX. Their offer came back at about 15% above what my dealer offered me. Better, but still pretty bad.

My wife's car was coming off lease so we were at a large Mercedes dealership which I asked them what they'd offer for my i-Pace. While the offer was still "light", it came in about 10% above the website offer so I took it. Sold my i-Pace because of its disappointing resale value. I'll still be watching the i-Pace forum for news, but I'm hopeful that JLR figures out the right way to market their next BEV. Maybe it's the rumored "j-Pace" or something else, but the lesson for me is that there's a price to being a "first to buy" enthusiast - although in all my years of vehicle acquisition, I've never seen a car announced with so much promise but then abandoned so completely by a manufacturer. Never. I'll say this - I got great support from my dealer, and I'll miss the unique experience of being an i-Pace driver. In the end, it was the financials that drove me to look at something else...of all the lessons I've learned in business the one I follow most often is "know when to cut your losses..."

Just thought I'd post this and see what reactions I might get.
 

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Keep in mind that after 2-3 years, the bulk of depreciation has already set in and the decline after that is more gradual. Yes, the depreciation is certainly severe when you've paid at or close to sticker, but I also factor in the $7,500 tax credit when determining how much depreciation I've incurred. I did that when I sold my Model S for my I-Pace. I also paid about $20,000 under sticker for my I-Pace, so quite a bit of depreciation was already built-in with my purchase, but not by me, by the dealer.

When you buy almost any BEV, you can be assured you'll be hit with quite a bit of depreciation. If your goal is to go BEV but you want to minimize depreciation, then you should consider Tesla.
 

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....I really liked my i-Pace. Took delivery of one of the very first ones in North Texas and absolutely loved the vehicle. In two years of driving, I never had any serious issues with it beyond the initial dead screens and random electronic surprises. Last month, one of the front shocks failed which was replaced by the dealer, but the vehicle was an overall winner in my experience.
......While the offer was still "light", it came in about 10% above the website offer so I took it. Sold my i-Pace because of its disappointing resale value.
.....I'll say this - I got great support from my dealer, and I'll miss the unique experience of being an i-Pace driver. In the end, it was the financials that drove me to look at something else...of all the lessons I've learned in business the one I follow most often is "know when to cut your losses..."
Am I missing something? You sold a car that you love to drive, at a resale price you thought was low, and now miss the experience. What did you replace it with? At what price? Is the pleasure of the new car worth the overall cost?
 

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...When you buy almost any BEV, you can be assured you'll be hit with quite a bit of depreciation. If your goal is to go BEV but you want to minimize depreciation, then you should consider Tesla.
Another approach is to buy for the long haul and take advantage of the warranty. After 5yrs the resale will be low, but not much worse than other vehicles. Keeping the car until "the wheels fall off" negates that issue also. The key is buying quality that will last, not new toys with serious build quality issues.
 

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Another approach is to buy for the long haul and take advantage of the warranty. After 5yrs the resale will be low, but not much worse than other vehicles. Keeping the car until "the wheels fall off" negates that issue also. The key is buying quality that will last, not new toys with serious build quality issues.
Now are you implying that my Model S, affectionately known as my "Rattle Box", had serious build issues? ;)
 

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I certainly get the depreciation story after 2-3 years, but after 22 months I was expecting something better - certainly better than 50%. My annoyance is/was based on JLR pricing discounts (and lease incentives) that were put in place in 2019 to try to jump start i-Pace sales...and to be clear, I have a lot of respect for Musk the entrepreneur, but not the subsequent product manufactured by Tesla. Literally every person I've asked who owns one, says the same thing - "I love the vehicle, but it's not really built very well."

If I had paid $20,000 off sticker and still got the $7500 tax credit, I'd be much happier. Like I said, my i-Pace was a great piece of engineering but I was abandoned by JLR. It could've been so much better supported and my investment in the product was a financial disaster. Had to cut my losses.
 

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Now are you implying that my Model S, affectionately known as my "Rattle Box" had serious build issues? ;)
Not specifically passing judgement on anyone else's choices, but ..... maybe.🙂

I remember someone here saying that a particular car was too quiet for drivers and so noise was deliberately added for a better driving experience.
 

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Am I missing something? You sold a car that you love to drive, at a resale price you thought was low, and now miss the experience. What did you replace it with? At what price? Is the pleasure of the new car worth the overall cost?
First - recall that I said that I typically change cars every 2-2.5 years. Did that with my f-Pace, did that with my C7 Corvette. I like cars. I'm not peeling apart every feature and every subtle capability. Rather - I enjoy the driving experience and LIKE TO get a new car every 24-30 months.

So, with that being said - yes, I sold a car that I loved to drive; sold it at a resale price that was disappointingly low; but - I do not miss the experience. I've been watching the Forum for posts about deals in the marketplace, watched the resale value, and simply decided to cut my losses. If I'd waited another 9 months, would the car have been worth $30K or less? Don't know, but for me, it was time to go with something else.

If the "j-PACE" was announced, I might've leased one (still might)...if the rumored Audi "Q9" was announced, I might've leased that (still might)...as it is, I'm driving an MB GLS which will go over to my wife's side of the garage when her existing vehicle lease (Audi) expires in late December. OR - I might hold onto it into 2021 if there's an interesting vehicle announced or something else that seems like it'd be fun to experience for 2-2.5 years.
 

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Have you considered leasing your next car? Buy high sell low is generally not a good strategy haha. Better to rent if you know that you'll be moving on within 3 years. [Edit: I just read your last paragraph]
I've been leasing for more than 20 years - up until the i-Pace, which I purchased to get the full tax credits. I'll definitely be leasing again...
 

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First - recall that I said that I typically change cars every 2-2.5 years. Did that with my f-Pace, did that with my C7 Corvette. I like cars. I'm not peeling apart every feature and every subtle capability. Rather - I enjoy the driving experience and LIKE TO get a new car every 24-30 months.

So, with that being said - yes, I sold a car that I loved to drive; sold it at a resale price that was disappointingly low; but - I do not miss the experience. ....
No business of mine whether you trade in after 2-3 yrs. I personally buy for the long haul. I was just curious if you had found something better that justified walking away from a $80k car and losing half that price.

That said, JLR's reputation is important to current owners in that continued bad press will only further depress sales of a very good car. As such, I do challenge your statement that JLR abandoned you. They did not guarantee a high resale after 2yrs, rather they guaranteed that your 2019 vehicle would still function as bought in 2024.
The business lesson here is JLR is obliged to do what is in the purchase contract, no more.
 

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Your points are somewhat valid - I get them. As I said, I'm not a long-term owner of any vehicle and don't expect to be. I thoroughly enjoy the experience of a new vehicle (hence a new f-Pace when it came out, a new i-Pace, etc.). For those of us who "acquired" early, the fact remains that most i-Pace owners were disappointed that their investment decision wasn't sufficiently reinforced by JLR marketing. Compounding that problem was the decision to aggressively discount the price of new ones, resulting in our vehicles drastically falling in value. In fact, when I asked my dealer (during the service call) if they'd sold any more, they acknowledged that they just sold 3 - at $20,000 off sticker. Ouch. So, I didn't set the market value of a new/used i-Pace - Jag did. My decision was based on my buying pattern and a strong belief that while the car is really good (I remain very positive of it and, as you read, would consider another Jag again), the financials of long-term ownership weren't particularly compelling. Like I also said - one of my personal life lessons is that I try to cut my losses. And I don't own vehicles as investments - but I'm very well aware of residual values, and how certain vehicles hold/lose their value based on a lot of different variables. IMHO, if Jag had done more advertising to boost demand for the i-Pace, if they'd have held my early purchase decision in higher regard (not sure how, but "first movers" are usually enveloped in attention from manufacturers), if they simply marketed the vehicle - maybe I'd have been more willing to go another 6-12 months and see what it's value would be. BTW, if the only thing that you feel an auto manufacturer is "guaranteeing" is a vehicle's ability to function and go where it's pointed, then you have a very low expectation of the $60-80K you have parked outside. There is a reasonable expectation that our purchases will do more than function - otherwise there'd be no reason to have a range of products that meet a range of lifestyle, performance and financial expectations.

I'm extremely grateful to the folks who post here on the forum (as I've done a few times) and I enjoyed the experience of driving my first BEV. I still have my ChargePoint charger in my garage, which I intend to use again with another BEV, and that might be a Jag. I am a committed environmentalist who believes that the future of automotive transportation will be electric. I don't admire the vehicles that are rolling off of Tesla's production lines (based on build quality, not financials) and I really remain excited about what I'm seeing from a wide range of creative auto designers and manufacturers.

My original post was simply to start a conversation and I'm looking forward to other comments.
 

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I've been leasing for more than 20 years - up until the i-Pace, which I purchased to get the full tax credits. I'll definitely be leasing again...
I'm not sure where you got the idea that you had to purchase to take advantage of the tax credit. Was there a TX state credit that required you to be the owner or something? By and large leasing is a better way to take advantage of the (federal at least) EV tax credit than purchasing is; you get it right up front as a cap cost reduction regardless of whether or not you have enough tax due to claim the full credit amount.
 

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Yes, there is a State of TX benefit that required me to be the owner (not passed on to lease holders) but the guidance I got from my tax guy was wrong. Also, the dealer wasn't inclined to use the tax credit as a cap cost reduction. Lots of unanswered questions at the time. I'm not too old to learn some new stuff! Thanks for the reply...
 

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It's going to be a long time before I sell this car, short of running out of this country clutching my few remaining belongings after the revolution comes. I'd like our next EV to be able to tow say 4000 lbs and be smaller and lighter. We have the perfect set of cars now. I-Pace for luxury and acceleration, the primary car. Forester for moving crap and light towing. FRS for fun and thrashing. If I were to sell two of these cars, the I-Pace would remain.
 

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A healthy discussion is underway in my "Hi from Toronto" thread in which some have speculated that the award winning Jag's lifespan could be cut short by slowing 2020 sales volumes and lower service revenues at dealerships (leading to lackluster sales efforts).

I find this very hard to believe. Firstly, this is not a swing and a miss for the company. The World Car Awards triple winner (Jaguar I-Pace, the World Car of the Year, World Car Design of the Year, and World Green Car) disappearing. There are too many enthusiasts out there that are already fanboys.

And it wasn't a fluke. The Jaguar I-Pace as the 2020 Canadian Utility Vehicle of the Year. And this was a 'Repeat Championship.' In 2019, the I-Pace had the distinction of being the first battery electric vehicle ever to win an overall Automotive Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) award -- unprecedented back-to-back overall wins.

So, many, many accolades the world over. Sure, there are discrete feature shortcomings that need to be addressed, yet the concept and platform is an outstanding success by any measure. A continuous improvement program after widespread recognition is a lot easier that failing on your first attempt and relaunching (Chevy Volt), or even ending up in the middle of the pack with an ok offering (hello Audi e-tron).

Those in the JLR business are scrappy underdogs and they play their hand well. The good news, a rising tide raises all ships. And the EV tide is rising, no doubt.

As discussed previously, California is moving aggressively to end the sale of fossil fuel burning vehicles. There are 2 million vehicles sold each year in the golden state, the same as in all of Canada. While California is the first state in America to set such a goal, countries and cities across Europe and Asia are moving in the same direction. In the I-Pace's birth-country, the UK is planning to end the sale of ICE's as early as a decade from now. (note: no one is coming for your gas-powered vehicle, you just won't be able to easily buy a new one).

So, a dealer may make more money servicing a gasoline burning Land Rover, but the senior leadership of JLR will be taking a medium to long-term view, and that view is electric. You're not going to abandon an Oscar winner because she appeared in a bad movie the following year.

View attachment 4778


I have had my I-Pace since June / 2020 ( a 2019 SE model at a deep discount - new - $60K). I stumbled on it thanks to Ken (of this forum). We were both waiting on the Mach-E Forum for first deliveries of the Mach-E and starved for info about it. The Mach-E (available later this year) comes in about $60K with the features that the I-Pace SE has. Both have the $7,500 tax credit.

The I-Pace has the fit and finish of a luxury car. I don't expect the Mach-E to be anywhere close to it in this area. The I-Pace has screens and buttons that are well designed in their layout. Coming from a Tesla MS, I can appreciate both.

The problem for JLR is that the Sticker price is too high. I think it would move a lot better at a list price down $10-15K. I see that they have a "detuned" model announced in the EU. It has the 400 SE associated features...same battery size, but detuned to not have the power. It is in the range of $10-15K less than the 400 in the EU.

It also does not help JLR to have to sell the car through traditional ICE dealers. All my Jag dealer could do was disparage the Tesla sales group across the highway...bad cars, bad people, etc. He did not know that I had purchased my MS from them. I ended up buying remotely from a different dealer. I had the say experience with my local Ford dealer with my on order Mach-E...unresponsive. I greatly missed the simple sales process that preceded my Tesla purchase.

Conclusion: Great Car, but priced to high to be competitive and grab "share".
 

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I leased my iPace 19 months ago and will be new car shopping in another year. I love the car. I own a Turbo Macan and an SL550. Each is fantastic in its own way. The iPace is just unique and drives like nothing else. I leased it for exactly the reasons discussed above--there was no way to know what a new Jag model with batteries would be worth in three years. I'll probably face the same dilemma when the lease is up--lease another one, buy this one, or get something else entirely? It will be hard to give up the Jag, and maybe by then there will be something else, or resales will be up. If it's an iPace or another JLR BEV, I'd probably still lease it for the same reasons. The new XJ? We'll see.
 
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