[Manny13z]

Hi everyone,

I am a Tesla Model S owner who’s interested in the Jaguar I-Pace. I am hoping to get more information on the Pace and get some insights on the Jaguar brand in general. I tried having this rational discussion on the Tesla forum, but I apparently upset the Fanboys there by just posting the question...I hope it’s different here.

 

[Guy]

You are welcomed here!

 

[Manny13z]

Thank you! What can you tell me about Jaguar, in the Tesla forum they were killing the brand but I know better than to listen to fanboys about other brands.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I had the same issue. Trying to compare Tesla to another actual EV, on that forum results in flames from the fanboys.
I had a Model S for 50,000 miles, and my wife has a 3. I'm also following the ipace closely...


So far, I've determined, the iPace is
Sexy
Sporty
Unknown EPA range rating
No super charger network
Range Rover looking interior
About $13-18k cheaper than a Model S.
Dealer is MUCH closer to my house
Top speed is less than any Tesla Model.
Jag doesn't have mobile repair services.
Tech in the dash isn't up to Tesla, but it's MUCH closer than anyone else.
Doesn't come with a UMC equivalent. - but you can get one that plugs into a NEMA 14-50 if you have that outlet already.
No autopilot or FSD options.


And, I think it's law to pronounce it "Shhhhhaaaggguuuwwwaarrhhh". It annoys the wife, but it's hilarious.

 

[McRat]

First retail deliveries are planned for Sept for the 2019 model yet.
If you go to Jaguar site, you can see there are a huge amount of options to select from.
If you want the Red/Orange Jaguar, you need to order the First Edition. That color (Photon Red), will only be offered on 2019 FE models.
There is a lot of questions about actual range (480km WLTP?) for the production edition. Only prototypes have been tested, and no EPA numbers.
It has a lot of options unavailable in the Teslas. 360° view, HUD, off-road digital control systems, 18-way heated/AC leather seating, etc.
They tested 200 cars for a total of 1.5 million miles as of December. https://electrek.co/2017/12/06/jaguar-ipace-all-electric-prototype-fleet/
It shares very little with the look-alike F-Pace ICE SUV. The cab is more forward, the wheelbase is longer, yet the OAL of the i-Pace is shorter.
There has been more press testing of the i-Pace and reviews than any pre-production car I can remember. YouTube or Google all the tests.
The ones with air suspension are apparently pretty good at off-road trails, since they can pump up to over 9.5" of ground clearance and cross 20" of water.
They don't appear to overheat on a roadrace course.
The "fake engine noise" feature can be turned on and off.
The owner's manual is not complete yet, but the in-process version can be easily found. It's twice as long as it was in June.
Jaguar Owner Information

 

[McRat]

I had the same issue. Trying to compare Tesla to another actual EV, on that forum results in flames from the fanboys.
I had a Model S for 50,000 miles, and my wife has a 3. I'm also following the ipace closely...


So far, I've determined, the iPace is
Sexy
Sporty
Unknown EPA range rating
No super charger network
Range Rover looking interior
About $13-18k cheaper than a Model S.
Dealer is MUCH closer to my house
Top speed is less than any Tesla Model.
Jag doesn't have mobile repair services.
Tech in the dash isn't up to Tesla, but it's MUCH closer than anyone else.
Doesn't come with a UMC equivalent. - but you can get one that plugs into a NEMA 14-50 if you have that outlet already.
No autopilot or FSD options.


And, I think it's law to pronounce it "Shhhhhaaaggguuuwwwaarrhhh". It annoys the wife, but it's hilarious.

The press has mentioned it's one of the best handling SUV/CUVs. The handling is user adjustable on optioned cars. Steering weight, dampening, tip-in, can be programmed, or you can let the car decide what settings matches the road.
EPA range not determined. Hypermiling will reach 291mi or more.
It has a "7kW" on-board, probably 7.2kW (32a x 240 1ph US).
Euro spec EVSE appears to charge at 100-265v, at L2 speed.
US spec EVSE has zero data so far.
It uses CCS DCFC at a speed that is not locked in yet. Is it 80kW? Is it 100kW? Will it be 120kW? All these numbers have been mentioned by JLR engineers. The charging speed can be changed via OTA updating of the battery controller.
Similarly equipped in the US, it's about $8k cheaper than the MS75D, but the i-Pace will have more features at that price.
Top speed is 200kmh or 124mph. The ACC is mentioned to work at 112mph.
Mobile repair is not offered. It's a 5yr/60k bumper to bumper, JLR InControl Remote and Protect, OTA updates, WiFi hotspot, Carplay/AA.
Read the owner's manual from my post above for all the features of the dash and other controls. Pretty extensive including traction mapping for ice and sand.
It has ACC and "self-steering", but nobody has evaluated it. It appears to work to 112mph.

 

[McRat]

Some dealers should be getting a showroom car this month. Call to verify.

 

[Calidave]

Great summary comparisons, I-Pace to Tesla.


Apologies about going off-topic, but I just noticed that McRat's user profile mentions "solar self-installed."


Would anyone who's done solar self-install be willing to share experience/requirements?


Many thanks!

 

[Katatonic]

Tesla is like driving a computer and less like a car. I'm hoping the Jaguar drives more like a car and less like a computer. My Tesla S was great 2016 and the majority of the bugs were out of it (except for the occasional reboot of the system (brake peddle and the two steering wheel buttons).. With the Jaguar I pace don't be fooled WE will be the Beta Testers! Totally unique but it checks all of my boxes. Fortunately they are a mile away. Can't wait till November!

 

[McRat]

Great summary comparisons, I-Pace to Tesla.


Apologies about going off-topic, but I just noticed that McRat's user profile mentions "solar self-installed."


Would anyone who's done solar self-install be willing to share experience/requirements?


Many thanks!

There is a lot of resources on-line. Mine is not a residential array. It's a 480vac 3PH commercial system with 2x1 meter 310 & 350 watt panels (76 panels) that are paired with Solar Edge P700 optimizers and fed into a Solar Edge SE20K-US rapid-shutout, internet connected inverter. The installation is on a "flat" roof, using DynaRaxx ballasted, tool-less racking so I drilled no mounting holes in the roof. I highly recommend Solar Edge. I highly despise Southern California Edison, the City of Norco permit dept, and the CPUC. 3/4 of my time was waiting for approvals, getting bad information, and other paper hassles. My city charged over $2000 for permitting and were unqualified to be handling it.

If ANYONE thinks California is Pro-Solar or Pro-EV, they live in a fantasy world. It's all talk and unnecessary bureaucracy. They focus on helping the Electric Companies, not the environment or do-it-yourself folk.

 

[Calidave]

There is a lot of resources on-line. Mine is not a residential array. It's a 480vac 3PH commercial system with 2x1 meter 310 & 350 watt panels (76 panels) that are paired with Solar Edge P700 optimizers and fed into a Solar Edge SE20K-US rapid-shutout, internet connected inverter. The installation is on a "flat" roof, using DynaRaxx ballasted, tool-less racking so I drilled no mounting holes in the roof. I highly recommend Solar Edge. I highly despise Southern California Edison, the City of Norco permit dept, and the CPUC. 3/4 of my time was waiting for approvals, getting bad information, and other paper hassles. My city charged over $2000 for permitting and were unqualified to be handling it.

If ANYONE thinks California is Pro-Solar or Pro-EV, they live in a fantasy world. It's all talk and unnecessary bureaucracy. They focus on helping the Electric Companies, not the environment or do-it-yourself folk.

Really appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I started searching online as well. Sympathize with your permitting woes and the Cali paradoxes (kind of like the EV incentives, eh?). Thanks for the specs! I have some flat land, so am debating between roof-mount and yard placement. Will take a look at SolarEdge. Thanks again (and apologies for derail in forum).

 

[Manny13z]

I agree with you, the fanboys on the Tesla forum makes it unbearable to discuss anything there other than praise for Tesla and Elon Musk.

The Tesla Autopilot system as it is now, is basically adaptive cruise control with steering assist, Jaguar has the same without the marketing name of “Autopilot” . Apparently the only thing the Jaguar system doesn’t do is change lanes when you hit the indicator. The Pace has the hardware to improve on this with over the air updates. To speed I’m not worried about, I’m not going to be going over 124 MPH anytime soon.

 

[Manny13z]

Absolutely right, the I-Pace has a ton of options that the Tesla does not, and even if you get the Pace fully loaded, it’s a lot less expensive. I also love the interior of the Pace. I was at the Jaguar dealer today and I was very impressed with the quality and design.

 

[Manny13z]

I read somewhere that it will be capable of 150kw charging after delivery through and upcoming over the air update.

 

[TeslaOwner]

I tried having this rational discussion on the Tesla forum, but I apparently upset the Fanboys there by just posting the question...

Hehehe ... that I can believe

My 2p-worth

Range has been poor (compared to WLTP) on pre-production models used by Journalists. No idea why the Journalists haven't been embargo'd on that (assuming it is just a pre-production issue)

I think its a great looking car, and lots of Jag-owners in UK will love it.

My negatives would be that it is a Version-1 (folk tell me that designing an EV from scratch is piss-easy compared to ICE), and there is no long distance charging network. In USA Electrify-America is taking care of that, in Europe not-so-much. Tesla Supercharger JUST WORKS. A significant number (guess=50%) of the 3rd party chargers I have used have been problematic, but even when not they are nothing, whatsoever, like Supercharger : Drive up, plug in, walk away, check phone, when ready walk back, unplug, drive off. The time it takes me to connect / disconnect from 3rd party chargers would get me 50 miles of range already at Supercharger, and that's if I do't have to phone the company and get them to initiate the charge, which happens around 20% of the time. This is UK though, and your 3rd party chargers may be much less problematic. Look on Plugshare and see how many reports there are on "could not charge" within the last month or two for the chargers in your area. If all good then great! you aren't like the UK in that regard

If CCS charging is like Tesla Supercharger, once rolled out, all EV owners will be happy.

Rapid-charging speed, and "taper", is not known (that I have seen). Only an issue for a road trip so depends on your driving habits. For me Supercharging is a one-or-two days a month occurrence, often for less than 100 miles "get me home" topup (rather than drive-charge-drive-charge roadtrip, which is a rare thing in UK), but in that context my 90 battery will Supercharge 10% (about 22 miles) every 5 minutes up to 60%, 7 mins to 70%, 9 mins to 80%, and slower up to 95% then very slow to 100%

Its only an issue on days when you want to drive out of range and, for me, with P90D (so similar sized battery to i-Pace) that is 220 miles max real-world on a normal summer day [less say 20 miles "comfort"], and around 20% less than that on a bad winter day.

I love Tesla Autopilot (and that's only original Version-1). Far far less tiring on highway drive, and great in stop-start / crawling traffic (highway or not). I wouldn't now buy a vehicle that didn't have equivalent TACC/stay-in-lane. I drive hand-on-wheel 100% of the time (don't want to become a statistic, no matter how long the odds) so anything that let me do that, at least as well as Tesla AP, would be fine (probably means that Jag would be fine, but I haven't tried it, nor ready any reviews either)

Perhaps I ought to get a test drive ... I'm not in the market for a Jag, but at least I'd be better informed.

 

[Manny13z]

That’s what I’m waiting on, I would like to test drive it first.

 

[WattAJag]

My feeling was this: The Jag is better looking, handles better, fully equipped it is way less expensive, is basically as fast as any comparably priced Tesla, and WAY more nicely appointed. It's a nicer CAR! It's not as nice of a big screen TV, but that's not what I was looking to put in my garage. I'm happy that Tesla paved the way and made it realistic to do sell EV's, but their cars are priced as luxury vehicles with interiors that look little different than a Chevy Malibu.

Yes, their self-driving is totally groundbreaking - but, I wasn't looking to buy a car for somebody else to drive. I (!) want to drive it!

Yes, all the plastic on the inside is lighter, than the materials used in the Jag, which gives the Tesla the edge in efficiency but I'm getting 265 per charge for my normal driving. That's plenty. I've never bought a car before based on the size of the gas tank. That range exceeds my bladder's.

The main envy I feel about Teslas is their Charging Network - which hopefully will improve. But, I'm very happy to see an experienced car maker making a usable EV.

 

[jaysellshm]

I had my Model S for 5 years and 86,000 miles. I made the switch to the I-Pace because of the interior of the car. The I-Pace is so much more luxurious than the S and I thought it was strange how basic the car was with a $100K+ price tag. The I-Pace cabin is also considerably larger than the S which is important to me as I drive clients around throughout the day. It drives as nice/smoothly as the S and is also about the same speed/torque. The sound system knocks the socks off of the S. I had a 1st generation S so the I-Pace has so many more features but the newer S probably also have those features (Car Play, etc). Here are the negatives:

1. You cannot control the charging amount
2. The moon roof does not open
3. There are no supercharging stations
4. The storage does not compare (the frunk is a joke and only fits a laptop NOT in your laptop case)
5. To achieve a Level 2 charge at home you must have NEMA 6-50 plug whereas Tesla uses a 14-50 but Tesla also sells adaptors while Jag does not
6. The dealership has told me that you must bring the car in for updates versus over the air updates supplied by Tesla (not sure who to believe since the dealership seems to be clueless about all things electric and an above post mentions over the air updates)
7. Smaller screen but it's still fine. The S screen is ridiculously large!

I've only had my I-Pace for a couple of days so the verdict is still out. But, I absolutely love the look and luxuriousness of the car. As with any 1st generation car you will have issues. I went through THREE drivetrains with my S and I had to return my I-Pace to the dealership after day 1 because my screens stopped working. I only had 67 miles on the car! They had to replace three modules and it's now working.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[McRat]

I had my Model S for 5 years and 86,000 miles. I made the switch to the I-Pace because of the interior of the car. The I-Pace is so much more luxurious than the S and I thought it was strange how basic the car was with a $100K+ price tag. The I-Pace cabin is also considerably larger than the S which is important to me as I drive clients around throughout the day. It drives as nice/smoothly as the S and is also about the same speed/torque. The sound system knocks the socks off of the S. I had a 1st generation S so the I-Pace has so many more features but the newer S probably also have those features (Car Play, etc). Here are the negatives:

1. You cannot control the charging amount
2. The moon roof does not open
3. There are no supercharging stations
4. The storage does not compare (the frunk is a joke and only fits a laptop NOT in your laptop case)
5. To achieve a Level 2 charge at home you must have NEMA 6-50 plug whereas Tesla uses a 14-50 but Tesla also sells adaptors while Jag does not
6. The dealership has told me that you must bring the car in for updates versus over the air updates supplied by Tesla (not sure who to believe since the dealership seems to be clueless about all things electric and an above post mentions over the air updates)
7. Smaller screen but it's still fine. The S screen is ridiculously large!

I've only had my I-Pace for a couple of days so the verdict is still out. But, I absolutely love the look and luxuriousness of the car. As with any 1st generation car you will have issues. I went through THREE drivetrains with my S and I had to return my I-Pace to the dealership after day 1 because my screens stopped working. I only had 67 miles on the car! They had to replace three modules and it's now working.

Good luck with your decision!

1) While the i-Pace has programmable charging (I haven't tried it), it is designed to charged fully. This is why the regen works right after a 100% charge, and IIRC, the Tesla does not.
2) True. There isn't even a ceiling cover like the F-Pace. But it has more headroom than the F-Pace. And even on a very sunny day the glass roof does a great job of keeping the heat out.
3) True. While there are far more CCS stations than SC sites, but the grid is not as well filled out, and most are 50kW. But 150 kW SAE CCS stations are starting to appear. However the i-Pace has not been flashed for them yet so is limit to ~84kW charging.
4) True/False. There are virtually no storage pockets or compartments inside a Tesla interior. Heck, the i-Pace even has under seat storage bins in the back seats. Yes, the i-Pace has a short hood. The Tesla has a hood off a V8 RWD car so the front storage is greater. I prefer to have a shorter car for parking purposes than a bigger, yet small bonnet storage area. The Model S is a whopping 196" long with smaller back seats that are difficult to egress from. The i-Pace is full foot shorter yet more roomy. Tardis Technology.
5) Wrong. The Jaguar marketed ChargePoint L2 is not the only acceptable L2 charger. Most brands (Clipper Creek, JuiceBox, etc) have 14-50's. Even the i-Pace prototype cars had 14-50 pigtails for their included EVSE. My i-Pace is charging right now on a JuiceBox 40 which is 14-50.
6) True/False. You can find out if you have an update available through your console, and it is capable of OTA updating. But none have been released yet, and at first it will only be battery logic that is OTA according to JLR.
7) True. A larger LCD is cheaper than physical buttons and knobs. But I find the dash, HUD, and center display to have plenty of digital real estate, and I prefer knobs and buttons over touch screen controls while driving.

Two of the more notable differences is the Tesla Model S is available with more range, and the Jaguar is available with sophisticated snow/off-road technology from their Land Rover division.
I agree that the interior is why I didn't pick the Model S. I expect a luxury interior in anything over $50,000 USD today. The Model S/X/3 isn't up to $30k standards in interior amenities.

 

[NerdUno]

We're transitioning from two years with a Model S P90D to the I-Pace. Nice to be back in a car where corner cutting wasn't the primary objective. Sun visors are actually bigger than your hand. Storage and beverage holders weren't an afterthought. Dealers are available to address problems when your car breaks down 200+ miles from the nearest Tesla service center. And Jaguar doesn't hype functionality such as AutoPilot which was little more than a marketing gimmick when we bought our AP2 Tesla.

There's more good news. The TeslaTap J1772 adapter lets you charge your I-Pace at any Gen2 Wall Connector or Tesla Destination Charger at literally thousands of hotels and restaurants. And, if you buy the $300 Tesla Mobile Connector Bundle, you can use it with the J1772 in lieu of expensive 240v alternatives with any NEMA 14-50 outlet in your garage or elsewhere. It provides the same 21 miles of charge per hour as the comparably priced ChargePoint CPH25 Home Charger or JuiceBox Pro without the bulky cables. You get Tesla Destination Charger compatibility as an added bonus at no cost.