Here's another perspective on range: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/jag...-i-pace-review-london-to-berlin-electric-jag/
REAL WORLD Range Test - BEVs including Pre-production I-Pace
So according to the test the pre-production I-Pace is off by 65% from the WLTP range of 480 Km (298 miles), achieving an average of 307 Km (191 miles).
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Quick response to the Motor Trend article (I will watch the video next)
Overall I'm always blown away by the unfettered enthusiasm .. the only issue ever is the charging infrastructure, which will improve so dramatically over the next three years that it will not be an issue.
If the car is *that* good I don't mind researching the route and possibly waiting 1.5hrs for a charge.
I now have 10 youtube videos bookmarked, all relentlessly enthusiastic. 8 written reviews, same. This car/suv/crossover/? is a game changer and I'm so totally stoked to have ordered one!
Overall I'm always blown away by the unfettered enthusiasm .. the only issue ever is the charging infrastructure, which will improve so dramatically over the next three years that it will not be an issue.
If the car is *that* good I don't mind researching the route and possibly waiting 1.5hrs for a charge.
I now have 10 youtube videos bookmarked, all relentlessly enthusiastic. 8 written reviews, same. This car/suv/crossover/? is a game changer and I'm so totally stoked to have ordered one!
Yep. I shared that piece together with another longer term review by Wired UK. The motor trend piece did not say much about range and accuracy of range. It's more about the challenges of finding quick enough chargers along the way.Here's another perspective on range: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/jag...-i-pace-review-london-to-berlin-electric-jag/
https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/3...d-reviews-i-pace-including-760-mile-trip.html
Here's another: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/o...yne/2018/08/02/review-jaguar-ipace/860251002/
"Fuel economy: 240-mile range (189 miles on battery to cover 140 miles, observed)."
"Fuel economy: 240-mile range (189 miles on battery to cover 140 miles, observed)."
I have both a 'Want one' reservation in for an I-Pace and a $1000 'deposit' on the Tesla M3 so I'm following this with interest.
Some thoughts....Tesla does a lot of stuff on the fly and uses early adopters as beta testers (much to the disgust of the auto crowd) We keep hearing that 'real motor' companies will test all Beta stuff before bringing a car to production - hence the endless testing and mules/camouflaged cars seen haunting the roads prior to release. Ditto the I-Pace.....
But it seems that Jaguar is so determined to beat Audi and Mercedes to market with an EV SUV that they have rushed the I-Pace a bit prematurely into 'production' - not withstanding the delays due to the headlights (Huh?!)
I'm fairly sure that the range issues with the I-Pace are not terminal or indefinite and are most probably software related. Even the Jaguar engineers seem to be calling aspects of the I-Pace "Beta"...!!!
There is some irony in here surely?
Some thoughts....Tesla does a lot of stuff on the fly and uses early adopters as beta testers (much to the disgust of the auto crowd) We keep hearing that 'real motor' companies will test all Beta stuff before bringing a car to production - hence the endless testing and mules/camouflaged cars seen haunting the roads prior to release. Ditto the I-Pace.....
But it seems that Jaguar is so determined to beat Audi and Mercedes to market with an EV SUV that they have rushed the I-Pace a bit prematurely into 'production' - not withstanding the delays due to the headlights (Huh?!)
I'm fairly sure that the range issues with the I-Pace are not terminal or indefinite and are most probably software related. Even the Jaguar engineers seem to be calling aspects of the I-Pace "Beta"...!!!
There is some irony in here surely?
Tesla has a massive first mover advantage in:
Software
Battery
Motors
Traditional manufacturers know how to build cars:
Interior design
Materials
Fit and finish
and I would argue UI as well (still scratching my head about the Model 3, the Tablet on Wheels)
Early iPace adopters will mostly be (involuntarily) beta-testing software (which can be updated) and motor and battery (keeping fingers crossed that those components don't have design flaws ...)
Tesla owners beta-tested basically everything: software, drivetrain, battery, sensors, interior, exterior ...
I don't have any illusions on range; it will likely be less than 240 US miles for most people. Software updates will tweak it around the edges; but in the end your range will depend on how fast you drive on the freeway and whether you use the one-pedal mode around town. It's basic physics ...
Software
Battery
Motors
Traditional manufacturers know how to build cars:
Interior design
Materials
Fit and finish
and I would argue UI as well (still scratching my head about the Model 3, the Tablet on Wheels)
Early iPace adopters will mostly be (involuntarily) beta-testing software (which can be updated) and motor and battery (keeping fingers crossed that those components don't have design flaws ...)
Tesla owners beta-tested basically everything: software, drivetrain, battery, sensors, interior, exterior ...
I don't have any illusions on range; it will likely be less than 240 US miles for most people. Software updates will tweak it around the edges; but in the end your range will depend on how fast you drive on the freeway and whether you use the one-pedal mode around town. It's basic physics ...
I'm only 1:38 in and the i3 makes me want to pour bleach in my eyes.
Does anyone else find it stupid we need a 'real world' range test? Should't the 'test' BE real world?
If the test is broken, don't add another test. FIX THE TEST.
Does anyone else find it stupid we need a 'real world' range test? Should't the 'test' BE real world?
If the test is broken, don't add another test. FIX THE TEST.
TLRD:
iPace: 307-319 km = 192 miles.
iPace: 307-319 km = 192 miles.
Comparison to the new WLTP Standard
They did say at the onset that the purpose to the test is to find out how close to the new WLTP standard ranges are the actual driving ranges. Some cars are over and some cars, like the I-Pace, are way off. The caveat being that the Jaguar is a pre-production model and is still tweaking the software.I'm only 1:38 in and the i3 makes me want to pour bleach in my eyes.
Does anyone else find it stupid we need a 'real world' range test? Should't the 'test' BE real world?
If the test is broken, don't add another test. FIX THE TEST.
TopGear just release part 5 of their I-Pace test which involved driving range test. They were able to achieve the WLTP 298 miles but with some CAVEATS:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...i-pace-test-part-5-how-far-can-it-actually-go
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/el...i-pace-test-part-5-how-far-can-it-actually-go
Yeah, not going to do any of that. A/C on windows down. AP set at 85 MPH.
That is a major concern, 307 km in summer is 200 in winter time. No way I will buy a 6 figures priced car with such a short range. Hopefully production cars will perform better.
Yeah, 200 mile range would be a deal breaker for me.
My P90D is a bit shy of 90kWh usable. Its fine for 220 miles at 75-80 MPH.
A Jag has newer motors, and a genuine (as I understand it) usable 90kWh, albeit slightly worse CD than Tesla, so I think it is likely once they've finished fettling the Jag that it will be 200+ miles
Dunno about everyone else, but range only matters to me on a trip, and that means I'm on the highway on cruise control, so everything is well placed for efficiency (other than the fact that I'm doing 80 MPH rather than 20 MPH obviously
)
Here in the UK I can guarantee a stretch of roadworks or traffic at 50 MPH on any long highway journey and that takes care of my range anxiety I might otherwise have had
A Jag has newer motors, and a genuine (as I understand it) usable 90kWh, albeit slightly worse CD than Tesla, so I think it is likely once they've finished fettling the Jag that it will be 200+ miles
Dunno about everyone else, but range only matters to me on a trip, and that means I'm on the highway on cruise control, so everything is well placed for efficiency (other than the fact that I'm doing 80 MPH rather than 20 MPH obviously
)Here in the UK I can guarantee a stretch of roadworks or traffic at 50 MPH on any long highway journey and that takes care of my range anxiety I might otherwise have had
Hmmm ... the Top Gear article says "total available 84.7kWh"
Yes, but real world range varies. A lot. Some days, I drive 100 freeway miles, and other days I drive only locally. Both days are 'real world', and range differs substantially.I'm only 1:38 in and the i3 makes me want to pour bleach in my eyes.
Does anyone else find it stupid we need a 'real world' range test? Should't the 'test' BE real world?
If the test is broken, don't add another test. FIX THE TEST.
All I want is a single benchmark standard that is representative of some reasonable mix of highway and city driving in consistent road conditions, weather, etc. Then I can compare different cars, and adjust as needed for my own driving habits, approximately. Maybe the WLTP standard is sufficient. The EPA standard is not great - the testing is done by each manufacturer, not by an independent tester, and even worse, the manufacturers are allowed or even encouraged to understate results. Tesla, for example, is apparently understating EPA range for its single-motor Model 3, so that it can show the same range for all current versions of the car.
My month-average is quite a lot higher than my trip-average. On days where I am driving within range I don't care much, and shorter journeys etc. are also not representative - especially in Winter when there is a signifcant power-penalty starting a journey (even if the car & battery has been pre-conditioned)
Of course not everyone's 200+ mile out-of-range journey is highway on cruise control ... mine invariably are. In our Winters I am 20% higher in February than best (not too hot) summer day.
My advice to people thinking of buying a Tesla is to use A Better Route Planner, pick the model, set the temperature (once for summer, again for winter) and perhaps fiddle with the other settings, and then pick some actual range-challenging journeys and see whether they would get there, and if not how long they would have to "refuel" (supercharge in Tesla's case, but once CCS is here it will be "similar" for Jag too)
ABRP seems to be pretty accurate (data is collected from volunteer owners), and now also includes Bolt and Ampera, and no doubt others too in future. Once it has Jag data I think that would help , but in the meantime even choosing a Model-X 90 (no longer made, but similar battery size) and compensate by setting whatever Wh/mile seems like a good guess, should give a reasonable stab
(the video was 441 Wh/mile, I think production will be better than that pre-production; 290 is granny driving, 330 would be very good. I am 330 in Summer with some road work / traffic 50 MPH bits, 350 at a steady 75MPH cruise and 370 at 80mph, and mid winter 380 - 430 on highway cruises)
Of course not everyone's 200+ mile out-of-range journey is highway on cruise control ... mine invariably are. In our Winters I am 20% higher in February than best (not too hot) summer day.
My advice to people thinking of buying a Tesla is to use A Better Route Planner, pick the model, set the temperature (once for summer, again for winter) and perhaps fiddle with the other settings, and then pick some actual range-challenging journeys and see whether they would get there, and if not how long they would have to "refuel" (supercharge in Tesla's case, but once CCS is here it will be "similar" for Jag too)
ABRP seems to be pretty accurate (data is collected from volunteer owners), and now also includes Bolt and Ampera, and no doubt others too in future. Once it has Jag data I think that would help , but in the meantime even choosing a Model-X 90 (no longer made, but similar battery size) and compensate by setting whatever Wh/mile seems like a good guess, should give a reasonable stab
(the video was 441 Wh/mile, I think production will be better than that pre-production; 290 is granny driving, 330 would be very good. I am 330 in Summer with some road work / traffic 50 MPH bits, 350 at a steady 75MPH cruise and 370 at 80mph, and mid winter 380 - 430 on highway cruises)
That's right out of the owner's manual under specs.Hmmm ... the Top Gear article says "total available 84.7kWh"
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