[dtgsrq]

So a 305mi round trip today to Orlando created my first need to fast-charge remotely-outside the home. I stopped at the Electrify America station at the Florida Mall. They had 2 350kW stations and 4 150kW stations, all empty at 4pm. I pulled into a 350kW station (merely because it was convenient, before I realized they were not all the same), plugged in, and charged. FAST. I charged 35% to 80% in exactly 30 min, got a text message that I was at 80% (after entering my cell number for that purpose) while inside for a bite to eat. I came out to check on the car/charge, then went back for another beverage (another 25 min - including 5-7 min walk each way to/from the mall entrance, they didn't position these for convenience to shoppers!) and upon return had charged to 100%. So basically added 150mi in 55 min (the last 20% was slower, as expected). Credit card was charged $22.28 for 53 kwH - so about 3.5x as costly per kwH as at home, but was happy for the ease of remote fill-up! My faith in the burgeoning EV infrastructure was definitely boosted today!

 

[McRat]

Did your car list it as an EV Charging station? What provider did JLR they think it was?
My car won't find an ABB 350kW station even after it's charged there before.

 

[Sbingham60]

I’m in the Orlando area and the navigation system can find the fast dc chargers at both the Florida mall and the outlet mall. It has the kw rates listed correctly. I’ve only used the 50kw at the outlet, not the 150 or 350 at the Florida Mall.

 

[McRat]

I’m in the Orlando area and the navigation system can find the fast dc chargers at both the Florida mall and the outlet mall. It has the kw rates listed correctly. I’ve only used the 50kw at the outlet, not the 150 or 350 at the Florida Mall.

Not sure why my car won't see DCFCs. Two different dealers looked at it.

It's only an irritant. I just plug in an I-Phone and use Apple Maps, Google Maps, Plugshare, EVgo, ChargePoint, EV Connect, memory, bread crumbs, asking strangers, calling 911, following utility poles, reading building permits, and doing grid-based search and rescue patterns. Piece of cake. It's never acknowledged a SAE Combo since it was new even while you are charging on one and save as a Favorite. However a true road trip to unfamiliar areas would require a knowledgeable EV experienced navigator with troubleshooting experience to operate the search team.

Our ABB 350kW stations are Provider NRG EVgo 120 miles away and 350 miles north is Provider Recargo neither is listed as a Provider by JLR either. There is no display of kW on any charging sites of any kind on my car with 18C. My car USED to see EVgo stations, but after they tried to 'fix' the DCFC mapping, it lists them as a Petrol Station now. EVgo is one of the more common DCFC chargers here. Almost all of them are SAE Combo.
If I go from SoCal to Las Vegas, the I-Pace with the freshest possible updates sees only one charger on route, and it's not operational yet, it's under construction. The two that work fine that I've charged at before, are not listed.

 

[epirali]

My faith in the burgeoning EV infrastructure was definitely boosted today!

That is great, by contrast as I posted elsewhere when I test Electrify America headquarters in VA last weekend 2 of the 4 fast charges didn't work (one was out, other couldn't read any credit cards or touchless), the other two only were delivering 37KW and 29 KW Hr charge rates to the I Pace at 50% SOC (both not NEARLY useful enough).

To their credit they sent me e-mail when I left a PlugShare comment and followed up twice to get technical and problem reports. Not sure if they will actually solve it but they did quickly reach out when they saw someone post problems.

 

[fedorachef]

So a 305mi round trip today to Orlando created my first need to fast-charge remotely-outside the home. I stopped at the Electrify America station at the Florida Mall. They had 2 350kW stations and 4 150kW stations, all empty at 4pm. ...

What was your max charging speed? Shows on the text'd receipt.

 

[NerdUno]

So a 305mi round trip today to Orlando created my first need to fast-charge remotely-outside the home. I stopped at the Electrify America station at the Florida Mall. They had 2 350kW stations and 4 150kW stations, all empty at 4pm. I pulled into a 350kW station (merely because it was convenient, before I realized they were not all the same), plugged in, and charged. FAST. I charged 35% to 80% in exactly 30 min, got a text message that I was at 80% (after entering my cell number for that purpose) while inside for a bite to eat. I came out to check on the car/charge, then went back for another beverage (another 25 min - including 5-7 min walk each way to/from the mall entrance, they didn't position these for convenience to shoppers!) and upon return had charged to 100%. So basically added 150mi in 55 min (the last 20% was slower, as expected). Credit card was charged $22.28 for 53 kwH - so about 3.5x as costly per kwH as at home, but was happy for the ease of remote fill-up! My faith in the burgeoning EV infrastructure was definitely boosted today!

So, if my math is correct, you went from 35% to 100% in just under an hour, and that's roughly 150-160 miles of additional range. The cost was $22. In round numbers, that equates to about 10 gallons of gas where we live. Translation: At $.40/kwH, the cost is about the same as gas for a car averaging 15 to 16 miles per gallon. And you wonder why the Exxon's and BP's of the world have a renewed interest in electricity. Am I missing something??

 

[sciencegeek]

Am I missing something??

Yes. :wink2: (Just kidding)

The difference is this: all miles you drive with an ICE are filled up at gas stations. Most miles you drive with an EV are filled up at home or work .. so even if the per-mile revenue of a charging station is the same as that for a gas station, the total revenue generated by charging stations will be a small fraction of that of gas stations.

For the same reason I don't mind paying a premium for charging when I'm on a trip as long as it's not tooo much.

Maybe Shell should buy PG&E ...

 

[Meldev##44]

The fast charging companies are like vultures taking advantage of their unique customers
and monopoly until competition presents itself. Also if gas prices keep going up, the electricity
rates although high, will begin to look better.
I don't understand why Tesla can't use their charger brand to gather revenue to others with a CCS
charging option. The idea Tesla sold to everyone was that the Super Chargers were to be solar powered
thus offering a cost competitive source for EV's to recharge across the US.

 

[sciencegeek]

The fast charging companies are like vultures taking advantage of their unique customers
and monopoly until competition presents itself.

I don't understand why Tesla can't use their charger brand to gather revenue to others with a CCS
charging option.

I doubt that any charging company is making a ton of money right now. Which is probably why Tesla prefers to keep it 'private' ... they would not make much money if they converted/extended their chargers, and instead add a bunch of non-Tesla-fanboy support headache.

 

[alphanstein]

When I looked at the math for charging at home based on prevailing rates in San Diego, then it would have been equivalent to the gas spend for the month based on the same driving patters with the ICE SUV or the iPace. The biggest benefit was to charge at the super off peak rates, this nets between 50%-70% savings in gas cost. Most people think just go full BEV and plug in when ever you want for all that electric savings, but this is not the case.

My one test charge at EVgo experience was at 50kW and that pricing was just over triple what I pay for at home during the super off peak ($0.09/kW).

 

[McRat]

Jaguar loaned me an XE for couple days. The way I drive, 60 miles sucked down 4.1 gallons, so let's say 15 mpg. Driven the same way, this same drive drains 30% of my I-Pace charge. Less than a buck a gallon in California is great, BUT... the time/money it saves taking FREE toll roads (special EV toll = $0 to $2.50 depending on time of day) and HOV access, is worth more than free gas. AND there is good section of the 241 to find out where the speed limiter is set.

Time has value. Speed tests should be done uphill. They rarely if ever set up radar on the uphill. They are too easy to spot and people tend to speed downhill.

 

[NerdUno]

I doubt that any charging company is making a ton of money right now. Which is probably why Tesla prefers to keep it 'private' ... they would not make much money if they converted/extended their chargers, and instead add a bunch of non-Tesla-fanboy support headache.

If you can't make money charging triple the going rate for electricity, maybe a new line of work is in order. Leave it to Tesla to pass up a golden opportunity to pay off some of the development costs of their superchargers. By the time they figure it out, there will be a charging station in every gas station. Knowing Elon, they declined to support other EV vehicles thinking they'd sell more Teslas. Pretty short-sighted view of where the world is headed unfortunately.

 

[dtgsrq]

Following my original post and answering questions raised... my max charging rate on receipt was 75kwH. Of course they gouged me on electricity rate, but to sciencegeek's point, 98% of my charging is done at home where I pay $0.11 per kWH so I don't mind - do you never buy bottled water at 7-11 at $2.59 each instead of $0.20 ea at the grocery store? I used my iPhone to find the DCFC station ahead of my trip to plan a place to "camp" for 45 min or so and charge... the mall was great - grabbed a bite and a dress belt I had been meaning to buy. As I think about travel with family (wife and 2 kids), we rarely stop for less than 20 min even when I was buying gas... so another 20-25 to actually take a break on those infrequent occasions 3-4/year when I drive beyond the range of the I-Pace is no bother.

When charging at Electrify America, I did get a text at 80% SOC suggesting I move the vehicle "to avoid idle fees". I called EA to clarify, since this was my first DCFC experience they asked me a LOT of questions, especially once they learned I had an I-Pace. (I even mentioned at someone in DC had mentioned their station was down.) He clarified that after 80% the charge rate would slow, resulting in an overall higher cost (they charge by the minute), to which I replied fine, I want to get to 100% since I do have a long drive ahead. So my overall cost/kwH for this 'fillup' was even higher as a result. My only complaint at all was that the glare on the screens was awful, making operation difficult in bright sunlight; you'd think they would have figured that out and provided higher contrast or shade. The 800# was answered quickly with helpful personnel. My take on why Tesla has not opened its charging to other makes is twofold: I agree with assessment that Elon's pride is a factor, but I also think the flood of Model 3's delivered in the past 6 months has clogged Tesla stations in many areas and irritated the higher end owners (S and X), so they certainly didn't want to suddenly open up to ALL makes and really piss off their entire customer base.

BTW, I've had almost ZERO issues - certainly none of any consequence - with either my car or this loaner for about 3000mi driven (1800 on mine and 1200 on loaner). I'm still driving a loaner (3 weeks now) only because dealer owed me a paint job on the rear license area (HATED the unfinished plastic there) and I also decided to have the front grill ring *black* like my originally ordered build... unfortunately the body shop painted the ring Santorini Black to match car instead of the trim gloss black as requested, and painted the license plate area black instead of Santorini to match body as requested. :-( I don't mind the delay though, since I'm driving another FE, just a different color. When I get mine back (next week), it should have updated software (S18D) and telematics if available. Then I have to wait another 2 weeks to *finally* have my diamond ceramic coating applied (they wanted to do AFTER the painting). My dealer offers valet service so they come to me when necessary to get or deliver the car.

 

[McRat]

Depending the utility, what harms remote charging rates is something called Demand Based tariffs.

For our utility, it's $200 a month + $17.32 per kW peak + 0.08 per kWh IIRC.

So to run a 100kW single charger in Southern California it will cost $1373 a month for the first car that uses it. So if the charger gets a 1000 customers in a month, no problem, $1.37 a customer for overhead fees then sell the electricity at a profit. If 100 customers use it, you've got a problem. $13.70 per transaction overhead.

The same thing would happen with two 50kW chargers that could be used concurrently.

And this does not include cost of capital or operational costs like maintenance, advertising, business license, taxes, etc.

So only very busy charger can make money in a Demand Tariff region, which is spreading like the plague.

This is why you see few remote location DCFCs by private companies, and why you see 1 or 2 chargers, not 12 like Tesla.

To make EVs remote charging viable we need a Congress and States who actually want EVs. Not just talk, ACTION. Eliminate Demand Based mandatory tariffs for EV chargers. Make it a choice.

This is one of the many reasons I say California is the most Anti-EV state in the country. I can't put a bigger than 4 kW single charger at work now. If I do, I get pushed into Demand tariffs, and my electric bill doubles because I have "cycling high draw equipment" like 4 AC units and a 10hp rotary air compressor. By law of averages, they will all come on at the same time at some point since the compressor is not optional, and the ACs are used to stabilize a 68-72°F laboratory, 24/7/365. Yes, they are heatpumps that run all night and day in cycles with 12 thermostat locations. I am so close to the Punish Barrier (20kW Demand), that I would go over if I pulled 7 kW continuous EVSE loading.

Either our government is inept, uninformed, uncaring, or just plain hypocrites, allowing a monopoly to do this to EV chargers in an area with over 25,000,000 autos, perhaps more EVs than any other US utility is Anti-Environmental Activity. Not neutral. It stopped the California Corridors we paid for. Since H2 stations and L2 chargers don't suffer this brutality, they built those instead and pocketed the rest in 'studies and committees'.

 

[Pseudonym]

So, if my math is correct, you went from 35% to 100% in just under an hour, and that's roughly 150-160 miles of additional range. The cost was $22. In round numbers, that equates to about 10 gallons of gas where we live. Translation: At $.40/kwH, the cost is about the same as gas for a car averaging 15 to 16 miles per gallon. And you wonder why the Exxon's and BP's of the world have a renewed interest in electricity. Am I missing something??

EA isn't designed for cars charging at 80kW. It's designed for cars charging at 150, 320kw. It charges by the minute so becomes much more affordable that faster the car can charge. They're building the network for tomorrow, not today.

I'm hoping JLR bumps up our charging speeds to at least 120, if not 150 in the future. With the Model 3 allegedly supporting 250 kW and the Model Y will likely match it when its released in a few years, they really need to do something. From my understanding, its strictly a software thing and they're being conservative initially in their charging speeds so that they don't fry the batteries until they get more data.

 

[Pseudonym]

I used an 80kW EVgo charger this morning. In 44:33 I got 39.99 kWh taking my car up to 89% and it cost $13.50. Much more expensive than L2, but I mostly did it since I was shopping there and it was a novelty--didn't need to use it. Not sure what speed that averages in terms of kW.

 

[Pseudonym]

Also, my F-Pace gets on average about 18 mpg, requires premium fuel and has a range just slightly more than the i-pace--and i believe the i-pace has significantly more interior space.

 

[dtgsrq]

Pseudonym, the F-Pace definitely has more cubic space than the I-Pace. I do like the F-Pace SVR, and sat in several before the I-Pace arrived at my dealer in August. Although I fell in love with the overall look of the I-Pace, I was a little disappointed at the cargo space. Given it is several inches shorter (height), it is to be expected. Also the F-Pace tank is 21.7 gal, so even at 18mpg that's 390mi of range, 156 more than I-Pace rated range.
You're right about EA, though, and when EV's can charge at the rates EA offers (150kW - 350kW), recharging will rival speeds of today's ICE fillups. I wonder how much JLR can increase the I-Pace charging rate with its current hardware? I'm glad to see Tesla pursuing higher rates, as competition will breed improvement by all manufacturers.

 

[McRat]

Oddly enough, the F-Pace I sat in when I ordered my I-Pace did not have helmet clearance for me unless I tilted the seat back. It was about the same as the Corvette.
Luckily the I-Pace has MORE headroom than the F-Pace and I can easily put on and wear a helmet in it.

For those that don't wear helmets but are still tall, this is the difference between hitting your head against the roof or not when you hit a bump.