The Idaho National Lab did some EV testings that included capacity decay. Don't remember the specific pages but here's where to start:
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/bev
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/bev
Lithium Battery Longevity
This is a good thread/video to check out on the UK forum:
https://www.ipaceforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=816&p=11076#p11076
Or, watch the video here:
https://www.ipaceforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=816&p=11076#p11076
Or, watch the video here:
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Notes from INL tests:
Watercooled LG Chem pouch cells, late chemistry (2016 Volt) = After 29,915 miles capacity dropped 3.6%. Hopefully we see this kind of decay curve.
Aircooled Nissan Leaf (2013) = after 15k miles, 19.9% loss of capacity.
Watercooled BMW i3 (2014) = after 12k miles, 8.1% loss of capacity.
Teslas were not tested by INL for capacity, although they are inferior to LG Chem based on owner reports.
The closest chemistry to us is probably the Volt pouches. Or at least we can hope. The LG Chem cells for the GM cars was developed in GM's battery lab, one of the largest in the world. Probably #1. Whether Jaguar was allowed access to the same pouches is unknown. The LG Chem cells are probably top dog right now.
Watercooled LG Chem pouch cells, late chemistry (2016 Volt) = After 29,915 miles capacity dropped 3.6%. Hopefully we see this kind of decay curve.
Aircooled Nissan Leaf (2013) = after 15k miles, 19.9% loss of capacity.
Watercooled BMW i3 (2014) = after 12k miles, 8.1% loss of capacity.
Teslas were not tested by INL for capacity, although they are inferior to LG Chem based on owner reports.
The closest chemistry to us is probably the Volt pouches. Or at least we can hope. The LG Chem cells for the GM cars was developed in GM's battery lab, one of the largest in the world. Probably #1. Whether Jaguar was allowed access to the same pouches is unknown. The LG Chem cells are probably top dog right now.
anyone know how to actually see the charging speed in real time of the I-Pace? Most other EVs provide this info somewhere in the consoles but I have not been able to locate anything like this on mine. I know some of the charging stations give the details but I want to info inside the car.
AFAIK, at this point, Jaguar wants you to install their suggested ChargePoint EVSE which is a 'smart' charger and it will display charging data.
IMO - Jaguar has not done an adequate job with their on-board charging software:
1) No setting for Max Charge %. This helps in two ways: Full regen does not occur until you are <93% charged. This will improve your brake life. Charging to less than 100% is normally better for battery life.
2) No GPS based charging 'departure' time to minimize Time-Of-Use power costs, while allowing instant charging when not charging at home.
3) No setting for Max Charge Amps. This is important because many commercial (and some residential) charging is now Demand Based Charging. In our area, it's $17.32 per kW peak charging rate. So a setting of 3.5 kW would save about $70 a month in additional power fees (compared to 7.5kW) above what kWh you actually use. Demand Rates reward people for charging slower during peak hours.
4) Charging door LED turns off after initial handshaking. So you can't easily tell what your charging status is. And with no light, it could entice people to try and unplug your car since they see no charging light and could assume you are finished charging or not charging.
5) Power use radial bar graph on dashboard does not show a kW number. So you do not know how fast you are charging, or how high the regen rate is. This is useful for saving time when the charging rate falls, and the regen number tells you how efficiently are driving.
IMO - Jaguar has not done an adequate job with their on-board charging software:
1) No setting for Max Charge %. This helps in two ways: Full regen does not occur until you are <93% charged. This will improve your brake life. Charging to less than 100% is normally better for battery life.
2) No GPS based charging 'departure' time to minimize Time-Of-Use power costs, while allowing instant charging when not charging at home.
3) No setting for Max Charge Amps. This is important because many commercial (and some residential) charging is now Demand Based Charging. In our area, it's $17.32 per kW peak charging rate. So a setting of 3.5 kW would save about $70 a month in additional power fees (compared to 7.5kW) above what kWh you actually use. Demand Rates reward people for charging slower during peak hours.
4) Charging door LED turns off after initial handshaking. So you can't easily tell what your charging status is. And with no light, it could entice people to try and unplug your car since they see no charging light and could assume you are finished charging or not charging.
5) Power use radial bar graph on dashboard does not show a kW number. So you do not know how fast you are charging, or how high the regen rate is. This is useful for saving time when the charging rate falls, and the regen number tells you how efficiently are driving.
Great video, although lengthy. In short, the key factors discussed are:
1. Ambient Temperature (keep temp lower, heat degrades battery cells*)
2. Discharge Rate (charging more slowly is better than DC fast charging)
3. SOC Limit (charging to lower SOC levels (e.g., 80-85%) extends battery life)
4. SOC Cycle Range (mid-range cycling (e.g., SOC 75% to 25%) far better than SOC 100% to 50%)
* Harder in FL and AZ, but, conversely, range is more limited in cold climates, so pick your poison ;-)
1. Ambient Temperature (keep temp lower, heat degrades battery cells*)
2. Discharge Rate (charging more slowly is better than DC fast charging)
3. SOC Limit (charging to lower SOC levels (e.g., 80-85%) extends battery life)
4. SOC Cycle Range (mid-range cycling (e.g., SOC 75% to 25%) far better than SOC 100% to 50%)
* Harder in FL and AZ, but, conversely, range is more limited in cold climates, so pick your poison ;-)
Keep in mind JLR has engineers very dedicated to the long life of the battery and direct information from the battery manufacturer.
Unless something is done consistently to shorten the life.... the I-Pace will take care of itself.
Unless something is done consistently to shorten the life.... the I-Pace will take care of itself.
LG Chem probably has the best batteries in the business right now. This is based on their success with the Volt and Bolt. Very, very little decay.
I would expect that the car's internal cooling system should keep the batteries from getting hot - even when your garage is. And, yes - our range (I'm AZ) is much better with the huge number of 70+ degree days.Great video, although lengthy. In short, the key factors discussed are:
* Harder in FL and AZ, but, conversely, range is more limited in cold climates, so pick your poison ;-)
Here's the link to the original article this video is based on
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Do you think JLR is aware of this and maybe incorporated solutions into their battery management software?Here's the link to the original article this video is based on
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Here’s my 2 cents on all the battery drain drama. JLR has not published any guidelines or recommendations as to charging to a certain % to achieve optimal longevity of the battery. Myself, if time permits- I’ve charged to 100% to maximize the range. The way I look at it is JLR has stated if the battery falls to less than 70% efficiency then they will replace the battery. I’m going to enjoy it will it lasts. In 2019 there will be strong competition and I’m sure once things settle down with the initial release JLR will push updates to increase battery efficiency and charging rates. Again, just my opinion.
I think you'd really regularly notice a drop of 29% after a couple of years vs. 6-8%. And, have no recourse. If you need the range regularly, you need the range. But, most people would be perfectly happy limiting charging to 75% 340+ days a year if only the dumb software made that easy. Because, if you charge to 100% all the time, you may well not even have that extra range available to you a year or two from now when you finally try to take a long trip.
75% as a top limit is a bit extreme, as it's actually "storage" SOC level (best for sitting for a long time).But, most people would be perfectly happy limiting charging to 75% 340+ days a year if only the dumb software made that easy. Because, if you charge to 100% all the time, you may well not even have that extra range available to you a year or two from now when you finally try to take a long trip.
And taking into account 5% top buffer which is never used, going to 100% indicated is not that bad.
When you're close to actual 100%, every percent down does matter, but below 95% (actual) further limiting is not that noticeable, and below 90% the longevity impact pretty much diminishes as other factors (temperature, cycle depth, load) start taking over.
With more or less constant cycle depth, the rule of thumb would be - single margin off the top, double off the bottom. I.e., if you need 40% capacity daily, running the battery between 40% to 80% would be the best; for 70% depth, 20..90% is optimal; etc.
BTW, talking about AZ (I'm in Chandler), I've installed forced garage ventilation, otherwise temperature degradation (esp. during charging) would probably overlap all other factors.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
A forum community dedicated to Jaguar I Pace owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, reviews, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Recommended Communities
