Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Got my car back after almost a month getting a wire harness replaced (see Gearbox failure post). They also did the H264 upgrade. Taking a road trip from Montreal to Boston. Fast chargers are pretty rare on the NH side of the highway (93) so I was planning to get to Manchester (1st fast charger after the US border) with 30 or so km to spare. I made a L2 stop along the way just to maintain that buffer. The GOM was working very well all day and I was managing to keep within 10% of the predictions and keeping the consumption down. Thought I got about a 10% improvement in range and was pretty happy.

When I was 20km away with 50km range, the GOM dropped to 30 in one step. Poof. Got my heart pumping. Switched to emerg low power mode (-8c outside) to nurse it the last 20km. At one point I was 15 out with 20 left. The low power mode seemed to help as I was at 12km left when I turned into the parking lot. At that point, it went to 0 and I got the stop car, system shutting down message. I managed the last few m and parked and plugged in.

So 50km in range at the end was more like 20. Anyone who just upgraded beware! Maybe the new software needs more time to get all the variables stable and you may see jumps. Sitting at the charger now waiting for the Adrenaline to clear out!
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,967 Posts
Got my car back after almost a month getting a wire harness replaced (see Gearbox failure post). They also did the H264 upgrade. Taking a road trip from Montreal to Boston. Fast chargers are pretty rare on the NH side of the highway (93) so I was planning to get to Manchester (1st fast charger after the US border) with 30 or so km to spare. I made a L2 stop along the way just to maintain that buffer. The GOM was working very well all day and I was managing to keep within 10% of the predictions and keeping the consumption down. Thought I got about a 10% improvement in range and was pretty happy.

When I was 20km away with 50km range, the GOM dropped to 30 in one step. Poof. Got my heart pumping. Switched to emerg low power mode (-8c outside) to nurse it the last 20km. At one point I was 15 out with 20 left. The low power mode seemed to help as I was at 12km left when I turned into the parking lot. At that point, it went to 0 and I got the stop car, system shutting down message. I managed the last few m and parked and plugged in.

So 50km in range at the end was more like 20. Anyone who just upgraded beware! Maybe the new software needs more time to get all the variables stable and you may see jumps. Sitting at the charger now waiting for the Adrenaline to clear out!
Glad you made it without a heart attack (or getting stuck)!

Beware the GoM ......... what was the percentage SoC at the drop? Didn't check? You're excused, that GoM is so seductive. Next time you'll check %age ... once bitten twice shy. >:) :nerd:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Glad you made it without a heart attack (or getting stuck)!

Beware the GoM ......... what was the percentage SoC at the drop? Didn't check? You're excused, that GoM is so seductive. Next time you'll check %age ... once bitten twice shy. [img= class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/img] [img= class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_glasses.png[/img]
I was using the main screen for AppleMaps. I was paying attention to the % earlier in the day and doing the math trying to figure out the battery capacity (82kW sound about right?) I miss the old display with %charge being more prominent. I did not note it, but I thought I was paying attention to the level and it seemed to be in sync with the GOM and I was continually doing the math between consumption (I was getting 27.5-28 kW/100km so the GOM was agreeing with my math. I hike I was not consciously taking notes, I thought I was on top of it.

Side note. Looking at Journeys, I was getting 3.3-3.75km/kWh and in super eco, it was a solid 5km/kWh.

I’ll watch SOC more closely on the next legs (Boston-Providence-Springfield-Montreal).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I have discovered that the best solution for these many Jaguar I-Pace problems is to just get rid of the car. Amazing how many of my issues that resolved. I would not recommend this car to a friend or foe. Prepare to take a huge hit in your investment...most likely worth less than half MSRP if less than four months old.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
427 Posts
I have discovered that the best solution for these many Jaguar I-Pace problems is to just get rid of the car. Amazing how many of my issues that resolved. I would not recommend this car to a friend or foe. Prepare to take a huge hit in your investment...most likely worth less than half MSRP if less than four months old.
Some owners of the first model year experienced very significant problems or quality problems. There is a much larger number of owners who have not experienced these significant problems and the software updates that have come out have dropped the minor annoyances significantly. I'm sorry to hear that you had the significant problems and needed to get rid of the car. I have had a very good experience with this car and have had it over a year with about 12K miles. You'll see others post the same experience as me on this forum and on the UK forum.

I would happily recommend the I-Pace to others as long as they know they are looking at a first model year AND whether they are aware of Jaguar overall quality problems in all Jaguar vehicles. If they need a car that has had a couple years of tweaking for stability, it is best to stay away and look at other options. Any new model from any mfg will have a higher percent of failures. This is not an I-Pace specific issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
Some owners of the first model year experienced very significant problems or quality problems. There is a much larger number of owners who have not experienced these significant problems and the software updates that have come out have dropped the minor annoyances significantly. I'm sorry to hear that you had the significant problems and needed to get rid of the car. I have had a very good experience with this car and have had it over a year with about 12K miles. You'll see others post the same experience as me on this forum and on the UK forum.

I would happily recommend the I-Pace to others as long as they know they are looking at a first model year AND whether they are aware of Jaguar overall quality problems in all Jaguar vehicles. If they need a car that has had a couple years of tweaking for stability, it is best to stay away and look at other options. Any new model from any mfg will have a higher percent of failures. This is not an I-Pace specific issue.
Thanks for this great comment. I also would recommend this vehicle to anyone in this niche of the market (price point and EV or hybrid). There may be other good options, but with their own compromises.

I am delighted every time I drive mine. Comfort, style and performance are its virtues, and frankly the glitches I've experienced have been minor and very transient. If I preferred an ICE, and if it suited me as to comfort, style and performance, I would easily live with (slightly) sluggish entertainment controls, buttons I might prefer were different, or even some inaccuracy in the fuel gauge or a calculated range remaining display.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
422 Posts
Also, while usually cars like Lexus, Toyota and Honda score the best in consumer based reports and reviews, most Jaguar products have been very reliable for years. Resale value has never been great, but this is sadly the case with most luxury brands (Range Rover Full Size has shockingly good resale value though, as does most Porsche models).

Depending on what year and what model, Jaguar has had higher reliability than some MBZ and BMW models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for this great comment. I also would recommend this vehicle to anyone in this niche of the market (price point and EV or hybrid). There may be other good options, but with their own compromises.

I am delighted every time I drive mine. Comfort, style and performance are its virtues, and frankly the glitches I've experienced have been minor and very transient. If I preferred an ICE, and if it suited me as to comfort, style and performance, I would easily live with (slightly) sluggish entertainment controls, buttons I might prefer were different, or even some inaccuracy in the fuel gauge or a calculated range remaining display.
We are definitely somewhere between the Innovators and Early adopters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations) in the market. I would not recommend an EV to a "mass" market person yet as the infrastructure is not there yet. I spent 15-30 minuted playing on PlugShare looking at different route options to have redundancy in L3 chargers on the way home from Springfield to Montreal. That little event in Manchester reminded me that we are skating on thin ice when travelling long distances, at least in New England. While I a comfortable with this (and getting stuck and getting towed would just be another story to tell at the next party), many would find this stressful. Personally, while if I had a swear jar in my car last night, I'd be able to retire today, I have 0 regrets. Driving from Boston to Providence and then on to Springfield today remind me why I love this car. While getting coffee one guy yelled (from the gas pump filling his car, ironically) how great the car looked. I take great pleasure in being behind the wheel that I have not probably felt since my '78 Scirocco. Not rational, but not everything has to be rational.

Back to the topic:
I don't understand why the range estimate has to be so flaky. A basic, basic GOM should be (sorry using metric):

Let C be the remaining battery capacity, calculated by SOC*Battery capacity in kW
Let E be the latest efficiency estimate in kW/km (simply take the average since the last charge)
Range is C/E.
Using this formula, the range will gracefully converge to 0, regardless of how bad the range estimate is. R may be completely wrong but willnever have an instant drop no matter how wrong it was.

Any idea what their formula was?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
266 Posts
We are definitely somewhere between the Innovators and Early adopters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations) in the market. I would not recommend an EV to a "mass" market person yet as the infrastructure is not there yet. <snip>
Back to the topic:
I don't understand why the range estimate has to be so flaky. A basic, basic GOM should be (sorry using metric):

Let C be the remaining battery capacity, calculated by SOC*Battery capacity in kW
Let E be the latest efficiency estimate in kW/km (simply take the average since the last charge)
Range is C/E.
Using this formula, the range will gracefully converge to 0, regardless of how bad the range estimate is. R may be completely wrong but willnever have an instant drop no matter how wrong it was.

Any idea what their formula was?
Part of my complete satisfaction relates to my needing no frequent longer range trips, no doubt. Those that do require them have a different calculus to perform. (Although I took one, and there were sufficient fast charging EA options along my trip path I found easy to find and not a hassle to use.)

I guess the question I don't know the answer to is if the discharge is fully linear at the later stages, and particularly in colder weather. I do agree any sudden drop in the GOM is seemingly poor performance, assuming a steady state driving situation as the status quo ante. However, I have seen such a change if I've put the hammer down a few times in a row, fairly immediately, but then a creep back with more regular driving.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,967 Posts
We are definitely somewhere between the Innovators and Early adopters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations) in the market. I would not recommend an EV to a "mass" market person yet as the infrastructure is not there yet. I spent 15-30 minuted playing on PlugShare looking at different route options to have redundancy in L3 chargers on the way home from Springfield to Montreal. That little event in Manchester reminded me that we are skating on thin ice when travelling long distances, at least in New England. While I a comfortable with this (and getting stuck and getting towed would just be another story to tell at the next party), many would find this stressful.
I can't agree more on this point. I and others on this forum like yourself just happen to be people who like this type of challenge, especially when it involves a relatively new technology that has the potential to improve both the emotional experience and the health of the planet. But it's not for everyone at all until it is so easy that you don't have to jump through those hoops you mention there [and I do want to hear about that getting stuck episode]

Personally, while if I had a swear jar in my car last night, I'd be able to retire today, I have 0 regrets. Driving from Boston to Providence and then on to Springfield today remind me why I love this car. While getting coffee one guy yelled (from the gas pump filling his car, ironically) how great the car looked. I take great pleasure in being behind the wheel that I have not probably felt since my '78 Scirocco. Not rational, but not everything has to be rational.
>:)

Back to the topic:
I don't understand why the range estimate has to be so flaky. A basic, basic GOM should be (sorry using metric):

Let C be the remaining battery capacity, calculated by SOC*Battery capacity in kW
Let E be the latest efficiency estimate in kW/km (simply take the average since the last charge)
Range is C/E.
Using this formula, the range will gracefully converge to 0, regardless of how bad the range estimate is. R may be completely wrong but willnever have an instant drop no matter how wrong it was.

Any idea what their formula was?
No idea, and yes, that's how you'd do it. I agree that the GoM behavior does not look like they do it that way. No idea why not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I can't agree more on this point. I and others on this forum like yourself just happen to be people who like this type of challenge, especially when it involves a relatively new technology that has the potential to improve both the emotional experience and the health of the planet. But it's not for everyone at all until it is so easy that you don't have to jump through those hoops you mention there [and I do want to hear about that getting stuck episode]



>:)



No idea, and yes, that's how you'd do it. I agree that the GoM behavior does not look like they do it that way. No idea why not.
Sorry, just to clarify, I did not get stuck, but had I (and filled the swear jar), I'd have more fun telling the tale than the hassle of the experience would have cost. What does not kill you makes a great cocktail party story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
570 Posts
I have discovered that the best solution for these many Jaguar I-Pace problems is to just get rid of the car. Amazing how many of my issues that resolved. I would not recommend this car to a friend or foe. Prepare to take a huge hit in your investment...most likely worth less than half MSRP if less than four months old.
Seems a bit extreme for the OP example.
 

·
Registered
2019 FE Photon Red
Joined
·
288 Posts
I guess the question I don't know the answer to is if the discharge is fully linear at the later stages, and particularly in colder weather. I do agree any sudden drop in the GOM is seemingly poor performance, assuming a steady state driving situation as the status quo ante. However, I have seen such a change if I've put the hammer down a few times in a row, fairly immediately, but then a creep back with more regular driving.
Those are two interesting question. I have run the GoM down to single digits a number of times and the rate of decrease seemed to match the miles driven fairly well (thankfully). However, I have also seen the GoM drop significantly either after hard acceleration/higher than normal speeds or long steep climbs and then partially recover. This seems to suggest that the GoM calculation has a component that factors in the most recent driving parameters, in addition to a long term component.
One problem with the suggestions to use driving data since the last charge is that the GoM would fluctuate dramatically over the first 5-10% of battery usage and would be essentially useless for planning purposes.
AI should be able to calculate a reasonable range knowing the intented route, speed, temp, weather, passengers etc, but do we want to enter all this data. My sense is that our intuition based on driving the car for a year is just as accurate and quicker.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top