[fedorachef]

Android Automotive Demo at Google IO 2019: https://youtu.be/aZJMtGPVymY

 

[Dantrium]

Android Automotive Demo at Google IO 2019: https://youtu.be/aZJMtGPVymY

I don’t expect it to be perfect, but it will be light years ahead of what we have now. Diehard Apple folks may not like using Google.

 

[epirali]

I don’t expect it to be perfect, but it will be light years ahead of what we have now. Diehard Apple folks may not like using Google.

I have no issue with the technology of android/google, but I will NEVER use their products including in a car until and unless there is absolute guarantee of data privacy. Right now there is none and android phones track your location even with GPS off and associate with your information. What would make a car based android any different. This would be a deal breaker for me in a car, not interested in google tracking my deriving habits for data aggregation.

I use Apple both for their design and their privacy policy.

 

[CyberSlug]

I agree completely with epirali. I will never use a Google product because of the inability to prevent the associated tracking in the first place (deleting the raw data after it's been merged into a profile and put through their ETLs and ML algorithms does almost nothing). That's already made me rule out Polestar for the foreseeable future.

 

[epirali]

CyberSlug: not that I liked the styling but I agree with you completely. The second I saw that Android is used I stopped looking. Great point.

 

[jsimon7777]

Good luck avoiding being tracked. Your cell network tracks your location, even with GPS turned off. Short of pulling antennae out, you're not going to turn off all the cellular systems on the car. This very site had 15 sites connected according to Ublock and 13 sources of javascript according to noscript. Privacy is dead. The best you can do, maybe, is adblock the results of that fact.

 

[epirali]

Good luck avoiding being tracked. Your cell network tracks your location, even with GPS turned off. Short of pulling antennae out, you're not going to turn off all the cellular systems on the car. This very site had 15 sites connected according to Ublock and 13 sources of javascript according to noscript. Privacy is dead. The best you can do, maybe, is adblock the results of that fact.

First there are laws that are not enforced about carriers cellular tracking and who can use it. But that isn't the primary issue, I allow car services (BMW, JLR) to track and report position in case of emergency or for road side assistance. I am AWARE of this and give permission (or not).

Google uses all data, including position, and aggregates with other data and MY IDENTITY for its own uses with no control or oversight or transparency. These two things are NOT the same.

I am not an anti tech paranoid weirdo and I use technology and love it. But I do not freely allow any company to productize me nor violate my right for privacy (I am not a celebrity nor a public figure) in order to save $200, and SPECIALLY not when I pay top dollar to buy a product like a car.

If people actually voted with their money companies like Google and Facebook would not be able to do what they do. And when companies like Apple actually make it a part of their product pitch ("pay me full price rather than give up privacy") many people ignore or mock them for it.

 

[Mister Dave]

Let me see if I have this right. Apple doesn't track your location?

 

[Mister Dave]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/11/30/apple-is-sharing-your-face-with-apps-thats-a-new-privacy-worry/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1601004391ac
https://patientengagementhit.com/news/more-health-systems-adopt-apple-health-records-data-sharing-tech
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/9/17334602/apple-targeting-apps-location-data-sharing-third-parties

In the third story:

Apple’s clampdown seems to be related to the General Data Protection Regulation, which comes into effect on May 25th in Europe. Under the new rules, technology companies will need to obtain explicit and informed consent from a person they’re collecting personal data from. That means apps might need to ask for consent to your data more often, or highlight how they’re using your data in clearer ways.

It wasn't an Apple policy until it was a European law?

Apple Health Records? Why don't I like the sound of that?

 

[epirali]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/11/30/apple-is-sharing-your-face-with-apps-thats-a-new-privacy-worry/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1601004391ac
https://patientengagementhit.com/news/more-health-systems-adopt-apple-health-records-data-sharing-tech
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/9/17334602/apple-targeting-apps-location-data-sharing-third-parties

In the third story:



It wasn't an Apple policy until it was a European law?

Apple Health Records? Why don't I like the sound of that?

I am not sure about your point. Apple proactively removed apps that violate the well defined rules about how they can access your location. You have to give permission. And if they work around that they are removed. That is privacy.

The other issues are both either opt-in or a theoretical flaw that was addressed.

Google has outright lied about tracking.

Sorry but this is false equivalency.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

EFF is a great resource for this information:

https://www.macobserver.com/news/apple-scores-high-eff-scorecard-user-privacy/

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/09/apple-does-right-users-wrong-advertisers

 

[jsimon7777]

Apple has had plenty of privacy issues themselves. I don't see them as significantly better than Google on the privacy front. It's mostly lip service, from what I can tell.

 

[fedorachef]

I have no issue with the technology of android/google, but I will NEVER use their products including in a car until and unless there is absolute guarantee of data privacy. Right now there is none and android phones track your location even with GPS off and associate with your information. What would make a car based android any different. This would be a deal breaker for me in a car, not interested in google tracking my deriving habits for data aggregation.

I use Apple both for their design and their privacy policy.

Its no different with Apple. With or without privacy in place, its gonna happen.

 

[epirali]

Gents I respectfully disagree and I think its a disservice to clump all tech companies in the same both. They are not the same from what I have observed and their business models line up with their stance on privacy. The ones who are "free" are making money off you data and the "pricey luxury" ones have no need to do that. Makes perfect sense to me.

Privacy issues are different than the stance and business model about privacy.

 

[CyberSlug]

I know some people that work on Siri, and their biggest impediment to improving it is how seriously apple takes privacy and anonymity. The data is anonymized before it goes through their ETLs and ML pipe, which severely reduces the context and makes learning harder.

Apple has definitely had leaks, and they could do more to protect privacy (ex: require the Secure Enclave to be unlocked or wiped clean to get storage access to the device and replace the OS), but they at least don’t try to exploit the info as their entire business model.

 

[Mister Dave]

I am not sure about your point. Apple proactively removed apps that violate the well defined rules about how they can access your location. You have to give permission. And if they work around that they are removed. That is privacy.

The other issues are both either opt-in or a theoretical flaw that was addressed.

Google has outright lied about tracking.

Sorry but this is false equivalency.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/

EFF is a great resource for this information:

https://www.macobserver.com/news/apple-scores-high-eff-scorecard-user-privacy/

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/09/apple-does-right-users-wrong-advertisers

I wouldn't assume to equate one with another, except to be very skeptical about any of them being squeaky-clean on privacy. The Verge story suggests that Apple's new no-share policy wasn't really their idea. More of a reaction to a new law.

If Google is worse than Apple I wouldn't know. I wouldn't defend them in any case. I just don't buy the idea that any of them care about me.

I have 3 cell phones. Two of them are cars. I pay less in a year for service than most pay in a month. I wouldn't know or care what platform they run on, as long as they work in the few instances that I use them.

If you really care about your privacy, unglue that thin brick from your hand. I don't have one and I don't feel less sophisticated. A tech addiction is an addiction, not a lifestyle improvement.

 

[sciencegeek]

I encourage people to check out the NYT "Privacy Project" series.
It looks like Google/Android has tracking capabilities (if you've opted into location services) that Apple does not have, and they (google) receive data requests from law enforcement on a regular basis, so much so that they have trouble keeping up. Apparently Apple does not ...
That said, I'm an Android/Google fanboy and google knows everything about me (I think). >Sigh<

 

[epirali]

@sciencegeek: Apple also successfully fought the FBI about requests without warrant. It was a risky move but it was also in light of privacy. They won that one.

And they have continuously added more and more features to try to prevent easy breaking of pins by automated devices so that phone on locks have to happen by court order.

@MisterDave: there is nothing that says that with proper regulation and oversight and correct privacy practices that a cell phone cant be fully secure. The biggest security issue right now is how we do not regulate tracking on the web and we’ve allowed private companies to become more invasive than any government ever dreamed of being. Yet it seems large portions of the population simply except it because it’s free or by false equivalency.

 

[Mister Dave]

If the FBI wants your info:

Israeli firm helped FBI hack iPhone

.....and we’ve allowed private companies to become more invasive than any government ever dreamed of being.

I don't recall being consulted.

My phone cars are tracked anyway and that I'm okay with that. Onstar is there not only as a phone, but as an emergency responder. The third phone, I'm not okay with. I don't carry it either, so....