[SabrToothSqrl]

So, this isn't a likely comparison... but...
I can get a Performance Model 3, AWD, with Enhanced Auto Pilot, for $75,000
The iPace, spec'd the way I want is $80,270.
for $5,000+6% tax I can rent a lot of SUVs when needed...

The 3 is pretty sweet. It's no S, but it's hella fun to drive. and 0-60 in 3.whatever is CRAZY.

Also, free super charging on the Performance Model 3.

UGH! I prefer SUVs, but $5k more, and no auto pilot?! I REALLY like my wife's AP. We use it at least 6 hours/weekend in the summer. (1.5 hours to location x 2 days) and it's worked very well.

Plus, I've never even been to a key party... so am I qualified to buy a Jag?

Or, wait for the Model Y reveal? The batteries in the S/X are crap compared to the 3, so it makes no sense to buy those right now...

 

[McRat]

So, this isn't a likely comparison... but...
I can get a Performance Model 3, AWD, with Enhanced Auto Pilot, for $75,000
The iPace, spec'd the way I want is $80,270.
for $5,000+6% tax I can rent a lot of SUVs when needed...

The 3 is pretty sweet. It's no S, but it's hella fun to drive. and 0-60 in 3.whatever is CRAZY.

Also, free super charging on the Performance Model 3.

UGH! I prefer SUVs, but $5k more, and no auto pilot?! I REALLY like my wife's AP. We use it at least 6 hours/weekend in the summer. (1.5 hours to location x 2 days) and it's worked very well.

Plus, I've never even been to a key party... so am I qualified to buy a Jag?

Or, wait for the Model Y reveal? The batteries in the S/X are crap compared to the 3, so it makes no sense to buy those right now...

Nobody is reporting much on the self-steering, AEB, and ACC of the i-Pace. The manual says it works to 112mph.

I've owned and raced cars that will go 0-60 in under 2 seconds. My first 'street legal' 10 second ET was in 1979.

I have a hunch the i-Pace will have adequate punch (like many EVs) for any kind of safe operation on public roads.

Have you heard a lot of complaints from Model S 60 RWD owners that their cars are too slow for travel usage?

At 3.5 second performance levels, anybody with $40k can hammer a P3D in a drag race. Take Camaro or Mustang with a V8, put DOT drag radials on the back, and spray it to a mid-low 11 second ET. And there is always something quicker out there.

But the i-Pace isn't for everyone. No car/truck/bike is. It's a luxury small SUV with off-road ability and healthy acceleration, and good handling. Many have reported it's the best SUV they've driven.

 

[Katatonic]

Yes But how many months/years will you have to wait? I was on a Tesla preferred wait list (I had an S at the time) for 6 months and no delivery date so I canceled. I believe Jaguar will deliver everyone's order within 4-6 months.

 

[phil]

Not so odd - actually, these are the two cars I've been considering. The Model 3 IS pretty sweet, but the Jaguar also has some advantages - Android Auto, cooled seats, heated steering wheel, general interior quality, hatchback, storage capacity, HUD, surround camera, powered tailgate, air suspension, true one-pedal driving, rear cross-traffic alert, blind spot mirror alert, lease availability, and others.

I ordered the Model 3, but it got delayed so many times I just got sick of waiting. It looks like Tesla is finally ready to deliver their cars now, but I'm leaning toward the I-Pace because I just don't trust Tesla quality and service - too many horror stories about cars failing on the way home from the delivery center, and months-long waits for replacement parts. Life is too short for that!

 

[phil]

I also agree the Models S and X are outdated, and would not consider them till they get refreshed. But now Tesla says the refresh won't happen till 2021!!! Model Y might be perfect for me, but the way Tesla has had to cut back capital investment, that car won't be ready for many years, if ever.

 

[TeslaOwner]

true one-pedal driving,

How is Jag different in that regard?

I thought first part of Jag brake pedal augmented Regen for the highest regen rate (rather than putting it all on the Gas pedal)?

Maybe Jag can come to complete stop? (I don't know the answer, but I believe that Bolt can)

Personally I almost never need the complete stop (using brakes) in Model-S. Rolling to a stop usually happens, or traffic isn't actually getting to complete stop, or I am bumper-to-bumper and on AP and that does do complete stop (using brakes)

the thing that annoys me most about one-pedal is when the regen is limited. Charge to 100%, or battery is cold, and regen is limited so one-pedal works VERY SIGNIFICANTLY less than "normal", and as I pull out of my drive into the our road it catches me out pretty much every time ... (yes, there is marker on the dashboard)

I think one-pedal should be consistent on all occasions - if need be use the brakes to give me the same "feel"

 

[phil]

How is Jag different in that regard?

I thought first part of Jag brake pedal augmented Regen for the highest regen rate (rather than putting it all on the Gas pedal)?

Maybe Jag can come to complete stop? (I don't know the answer, but I believe that Bolt can)

Personally I almost never need the complete stop (using brakes) in Model-S. Rolling to a stop usually happens, or traffic isn't actually getting to complete stop, or I am bumper-to-bumper and on AP and that does do complete stop (using brakes)

the thing that annoys me most about one-pedal is when the regen is limited. Charge to 100%, or battery is cold, and regen is limited so one-pedal works VERY SIGNIFICANTLY less than "normal", and as I pull out of my drive into the our road it catches me out pretty much every time ... (yes, there is marker on the dashboard)

I think one-pedal should be consistent on all occasions - if need be use the brakes to give me the same "feel"

Yes, that's right, the Jag, like the Bolt and Leaf, will bring the car to a full stop with regen. The Teslas have regen cut out somewhere around 5 mph - don't know why, but it seems less than ideal. I really liked the true one-pedal driving on the Bolt.

I never experience the limited regen, because I never charged the battery more than 87%, and I live in California. But yes, I can see how that would be annoying. Seems like there should be a way around that issue - i.e. when braking energy can't be stored in the battery, just have the car's friction brakes activate to mimic regenerative braking when your foot's off the accelerator.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Well, I guess the 'good' new for me is, I don't need a new car this second. So I can plan to test drive the iPace, and hopefully come March see what the Model Y looks like, and by that time, I'm thinking there will be some 2017 X100Ds in the price range I want to pay (CPO). So it will come down to, new iPace, used X, or Model Y. I really do prefer SUV "size", but I've been driving my 2009 Tahoe now for 2 months and I'm already sick of it. My god it's so slow. It stops like a school bus, and every 5 minutes I have to drive out of my way to get to get in line to pay for gas behind some gashole who's car is parked at pump, while they either sit in their car not moving, not pumping, or are no where to be found... I had driven an X for 2 weeks, loaned by a friend, and man that was fun. The size of a SUV, but the GO of sports car. I'm hoping the iPace is similar. I enjoy the act of driving, and miss the handling of my S so much vs. my Tahoe.



The interesting part is that it no longer comes down to the car. All gas cars are pretty much equal. (in the same price range, obviously a Geo metro is not an Audi R8). But you compare the CARS and nothing but the cars. Maybe the dealers a bit, but here there is a whole ecosystem around the car.
Tesla has Super Chargers.
Tesla has mobile repairs.


Jag has...? stealerships?


I like the Jag CAR. I'm just not sure I'm ready to go back to the whole dealership thing.


Do you guys (and gals) really thing ipaces will be delivered in 4-6 months? That's both not long, and an eternity.
My wife has had hers now for a while, and new orders say 2-4 months.

In any case, the tax credit NEEDS to get extended, and changed to expire such that it reads "cars ordered before 01/01/2021". It's a much more clear delineation than if you take possession, which can vary widely.



I do wish the ipace could tow. I need to move a trailer every so often, and don't want to have to rent something to do it...

 

[TeslaOwner]

The Teslas have regen cut out somewhere around 5 mph - don't know why, but it seems less than ideal.

I don't know why either ... AP will happily use Max Regen but also brakes to bring the car to a full stop. So important to remember to remember!! that you have to use brakes to stop, which is bound to lead to some bumps. But, that said, I very rarely use brakes for a full stop (where I wasn't already on the brakes, so slowing down faster than Max Regen), or needing to make that final stop faster than the regen-deceleration-rate, alone, was going to achieve, but that may just be me.

... every 5 minutes I have to drive out of my way to get to get in line to pay for gas ...

Hilarious! but, yeah, I used to spend 8 hours a year (10 mins a week) pumping gas ...

Tesla has Super Chargers.
Tesla has mobile repairs.

Jag has...? stealerships?

So when you can't get spares (for months on end) / aren't happy with something, are the Jag Dealers going to serve you better than the Tesla solution?

Tesla sent me a reply to an email yesterday - 6 weeks after I sent it. They didn't answer the question (which didn't particularly need my account details) but wanted my old email address (changed about 2 years ago in my online account) to find my details. Their reply quoted my VIN number to me (that obviously isn't any use in finding my account)

I'd class that as "not great" !!

Do you guys (and gals) really thing ipaces will be delivered in 4-6 months?

I do. There are loads floating being seen around in USA - for training / demos etc. That sounds like a company that is already tooled up to having a finished, debugged, product ready to sell. But:

come March see what the Model Y looks like

by then I reckon they will be sold out of the 20K first year units ...

 

[phil]

I do believe they'll be delivering my I-Pace in 4-6 months, as they have estimated. I'm only going by what I read - it's an important project for a well-established car company, the contract manufacturer is known to be reliable, lots of actual working I-Paces have been seen and test driven, Jaguar's advertised timeframe has remained fairly stable so far, etc. So sure, I believe it, but we won't know for certain till deliveries happen.

I guess the I-Pace and Model X can both be considered SUVs, but Model X seems a whole lot bigger.

I'm not a fan of car dealerships, and I know Jaguar cars are not famous for reliability. But IIRC used Teslas come with warranties limited to 2 years - that's downright terrifying! The cost of door handle replacements alone would be enough to scare me away from a used Model X not to mention the falcon wings!

 

[TeslaOwner]

The cost of door handle replacements ... not to mention the falcon wings!

Not exactly DIY

My first car was a 1935 Morris 8 (NOT owned from new )

I could climb in the engine bay if I needed to fiddle with anything ...

 

[phil]

Not exactly DIY

My first car was a 1935 Morris 8 (NOT owned from new )
I could climb in the engine bay if I needed to fiddle with anything ...

That looks like a sweet ride! And 1935 - First Edition, right?

My first was a 1969 Chrysler Newport - no classic, but it's now far closer to a 1935 than to a 2019 model year I-Pace. Where does the time go?

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

That Moris is pimp! I would totally drive that.


If anyone has a super cheap Ford Slant Back, and a crashed leaf... we could combine them into a Ford Slant back EV!



You can get a CPO with 2yr or some have 4 year 50,000. And yes, those stupid doors on the X is part of why you need a warranty!
I'm really hoping the Y has.. Ohh.. I don't know... CAR DOORS. Even the handles on the 3 are stupid and a hassle. It's a car door handle. Making it a 'work of art' just makes it HARDER TO USE.


I've not personally experienced any lengthy part waits, but I assume Jag being a bigger company can produce more parts faster.
With the features my wife will get in the next 4-6 weeks with AP, it will be exciting to see. I enjoy driving, but man is AP nice when you're bumper to bumper at 70 mph in 3 lanes across and tired... because that's not driving. Driving is no one else on a winding road, good visibility, and generous use of the GO pedal in a (safe) manner...


Does anyone know when the official EPA numbers drop for the ipace? They can't sell it until those exist, correct?


http://blog.raleighclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/181418776-3.jpg?x32310

 

[TeslaOwner]

Making it a 'work of art' just makes it HARDER TO USE.

When we did a major house make-over recently we went out of our way to choose devices that needed no explanation for house guests ...

... went to stay with family in their new smart rebuild recently. The instruction briefing made picking up a Tesla with AutoPilot-and-all-the-Tech handover seem like a breeze!

Taps that have an on/off hot/cold selector knob that defied logic, plus a "ring" that you can single or double push down, and then turn sideways, for filtered drinking, or boiling, water ... IMHO an accident waiting to happen, especially as the Blue/Red LEd was invisible in direct sunlight ...

We also having Filtered Drinking and Boiling Taps, separate to the main taps, and the only gotcha is that the boiling tap has a child-proof knob.

All the Home Automation stuff we installed had to pass the "Could my elderly Mother in law use it ..."

I hate all this differentiation-for-the-sake of it that Marketing come up with and, as a slow-processing/Dyslexic person, put me at risk from the variability causing me to potentially fail to process the salient information in time. Only yesterday saw a Mini with a turn-signal in the ring of day-light-running-light around the headlight. it definitely took me "longer than reasonable" to figure that it was flashing orange ...

Does anyone know when the official EPA numbers drop for the ipace? They can't sell it until those exist, correct?

90kWh battery, slightly less good CD than Model-S, slightly better, more modern, motors.

My Model-S is a 90, and the Performance, but at 100% charge I get 220 real-world-miles on a not-overly-hot Summer's day at 75-80 MPH cruise. I reckon Jag will be there-or-there-abouts

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Man, that's awful. I want drinking water not to scald my mouth open!
Yea, some stuff is just needlessly complex. the reason the iPhone is successful is in part due to the hours and hours spent making a complex task.. simple.
When I borrowed a F350 this week I was overwhelmed by not only the number of buttons, but all the things I had to do to make it work!
I also tried to turn around in my yard, after heavy rain so I now have a huge ditch where the tires spun. ugh... lol can't win.


I have a rather heavy foot, and drove my S such that I'd wreck a set of rear tires in 7500-9000 miles... Averaged 370 wH/mile.
I just can't see how the iPace is 240 at 90kWh and the X is 240 at 75kWh... and the X is bigger...

I hope this means the iPace is a TRUE 240 miles as I know there is no way in **** I'd get 240 from a X75D...

 

[TeslaOwner]

I hope this means the iPace is a TRUE 240 miles

Seems reasonable to me. Forgot to mention in earlier than the 90 battery in Tesla is quite a bit less than 90, so if i-Pace is 90kWh then 240 real-world miles seems entirely reasonable.

Despite unlimited number of Mates-Demos on Insane in the first year I got 40,000 miles out of the first set of tyres ... surprised me. AWD though, and they never ever spin

My best spot, if I am lucky to be first-at-the-stop-light, is a big roundabout near here which has 1st exit uphill slip onto highway. Its a reasonably sharp 90-degree ... My S will take "launch" happily with no loss of traction, and seemingly no loss of acceleration (compared to straight lien). I love it if there is something exciting behind me ... I'm up the slip and onto the highway before they have even made it to the bottom of the slip. Hopefully they have all been suitably impressed and already put down a deposit on an EV

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Awesome. I miss my S. Sometimes I'd leave a green light, and NOT punch it, just you know... go... and I'd look in my rear view and see cars, and think... ohh, crap, was that actually GREEN?!



Yea, I think my S85 was really only like 79kWh or something. I think the 90 and 100 were closer to the "badge". Or maybe that's the 75. In any case, Tesla stock did very well Thursday for me


I'd like to see a side by side of all the Tesla models and the ipace, for a size diagram. But I'm not talented enough to make one. The 3 is fun, but I know it's just not big enough for me. 2 dogs + cargo results in a tight fit...

 

[phil]

Taps that have an on/off hot/cold selector knob that defied logic, plus a "ring" that you can single or double push down, and then turn sideways, for filtered drinking, or boiling, water ...

More than once now I've had to call the hotel front desk to ask how to turn on the shower. Five minutes of pulling, pushing, squeezing, and twisting things is about my limit before I give up. Figuring out a rental car is more challenging every year, even gas guzzlers. Often simple is good.

 

[phil]

I'm really hoping the Y has.. Ohh.. I don't know... CAR DOORS. Even the handles on the 3 are stupid and a hassle. It's a car door handle. Making it a 'work of art' just makes it HARDER TO USE.

I hear this is what Elon is planning for the Model Y:

https://media0.giphy.com/media/xidhYDR9Ewq64/giphy.gif

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I saw that before on youtube. that's slick!