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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all

I worked on the X590 (i-PACE) programme from 2016-18 in Jaguar Land Rover. My responsibilities included making sure the dealer network had access to relevant tooling, training and workshop information for the new battery EV being introduced. Along the way I learned a few things about the car which may be of interest.

I know that these forums are full of conjecture and conflicting information so I will help answer questions where I can. The dealer network is often unhelpful as their word is taken as gospel by customers (quite rightly assuming that they know everything about the car) whereas they may not be fully informed.

For instance, I recently read that during 'live working' (lid off battery) there needs to be a technician whose sole job it is to hold an insulated hook in order to pull the operating technician out of trouble should he or she be incapacitated by the ~500v DC inside the battery.

This is true - for a limited amount of time. The tech with the hook needs to be on hand while the lid is removed from the battery, and while the battery is reduced to a 'safe' state - eg the bus bars are removed in sequence to reduce max voltage to 36v or thereabouts. Once this is done (maybe an hour's work) the tech with the hook can go off and do something more useful!

The i-PACE itself was an interesting project and certainly threw up some new challenges for the business, things you may not immediately think of like:

- how our Parts department manages the distribution and storage of £20,000 batteries that have a shelf life and ideally require periodical charging. The battery packs weigh around 600kg (1 ton?) and cannot be shipped via air freight and are made in Poland.

Let me know if you have any questions and I'll do my best to answer. In the meantime, enjoy your lovely new cars... a pic of stacked empty battery packs attached for your enjoyment!
 

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Most of my questions would revolve around the software. How in the world did they let these cars ship with so many software bugs?
 

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Great! Welcome! Maybe you have a thought on the shuddering issue described /videoed by gordondd in the "seized up" thread ...
 

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Welcome! Thanks for confirming my service dealer story about the technician with the hook!
-Benjamin
 

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I'd love to read an essay about the JLR Pathfinder DoIP service system.
Do you HAVE to use a Panasonic Toughbook?
Which DoIP devices are suggested?
Which subscriptions do what?
What are the datalogging or PID display abilities?
Where to find a list of PIDs?
 

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Thank you genuinely for offering information!

Your post is kinda funny though! In the first paragraph, you say that you were responsible for training and providing information to the dealer network. In the 2nd paragraph, you say that the dealer network is not very well informed. So basically you're saying that you were not very good at your job :eek:
 

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In my opinion (not the opinion of JLR I should stress) the pressure to ship the car out to customers 'on time' caused issues in software not being fully tested or ready. This is not confined to i-PACE by the way, JLR is guilty of this quite a lot.

i-PACE was an interesting car for lots of reasons, but mainly because it was not a car that Marketing asked for. Normally, Marketing would identify a 'hole' in the market that is potentially profitable, give Engineering a set of specifications/dimensions/costs etc and Engineering would go away and develop a solution to fill that void.

In the case of i-PACE, it is a car that Legislation demanded - selling an electric vehicle enabled JLR to receive environmental credits which offset the sale of its conventional-fuel cars. These credits (I think) are awarded on a model-year basis, so if a 2019 model year electric vehicle is sold, JLR is allowed to sell more petrol (or diesel) cars. Given that there is an end-date after which a 2019 model year car becomes 2020, this gives an immovable deadline for JLR to ship cars. And lots of commercial pressure to meet this deadline.

Therefore the legislative pressure demanded an electric vehicle that Marketing didn't necessarily ask for, or know how to sell... make of this what you will.

Often dealers are left with the task to update software to latest level after the vehicles are shipped, as the vehicles are on the water for quite a while (6 weeks to USA) and the software is effectively 'free' to distribute (unlike physical parts).
 

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Thank you genuinely for offering information!

Your post is kinda funny though! In the first paragraph, you say that you were responsible for training and providing information to the dealer network. In the 2nd paragraph, you say that the dealer network is not very well informed. So basically you're saying that you were not very good at your job :eek:
Good point... the dealer/manufacturer relationship is an interesting one, mainly because the dealers are entirely independent (commercially speaking) from the manufacturer. So the investment for training and tooling comes out of the dealer's pocket, at the behest of the manufacturer.

Imagine being a JLR dealer who is expecting to see maybe one or two i-PACEs in the course of a year. Would you want to invest thousands in tooling (which would sit largely idle) and send your valued technicans away to learn about a car they'd hardly ever see? This is just one of the problems we were up against.

I'd like to stress that the dealer network is *sometimes* not very well informed. They all vary as you probably know. Maybe I'd be better phrasing it something like: "The dealers are not always communicating the message(s) that the manufacturer would like" or "There is always a lag between a manufacturer identifying a problem (and solution), and the dealer learning and understanding about that fix".

Finally to be super-precise I wasn't responsible for the training, that was a different department, but we worked closely due to the nature of the programme (all new electric vehicle and high-voltage working).
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'd love to read an essay about the JLR Pathfinder DoIP service system.
Do you HAVE to use a Panasonic Toughbook?
Which DoIP devices are suggested?
Which subscriptions do what?
What are the datalogging or PID display abilities?
Where to find a list of PIDs?
Unfortunately I was mainly the mechanical aspect of servicing as opposed to software/fault diagnosis... however I do believe the Panasonic Toughbook was standard issue to JLR techs for fault-finding.

Most of the answers to your other questions will be available through the normal channels - ie if you are a registered dealer then you'll be able to obtain all of the diagnostic software required for i-PACE. (As a home mechanic myself I appreciate this is probably not what you want to hear!)
 

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Great! Welcome! Maybe you have a thought on the shuddering issue described /videoed by gordondd in the "seized up" thread ...
Haven't read the thread but when we had prototype vehicles the difficulty was in keeping the 12v batteries charged sufficiently to enable the high-voltage contactors to operate.

In other words the 12v system did all the software/control functions including operating the high voltage/high current switch that directs current towards the drive units.

If you have insufficient charge in the 12v system (charging fault, been left sitting a while etc) then the contactors aren't able to close and the car won't drive.

On the subject of vehicle recovery - the parking brake can be released manually via the rear calipers and the vehicle can be dragged VERY slowly (less than walking pace) for a VERY short distance (ie onto a low-loader). Towing at speed with any of the wheels on the ground is a big no-no.
 

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Haven't read the thread but when we had prototype vehicles the difficulty was in keeping the 12v batteries charged sufficiently to enable the high-voltage contactors to operate.

In other words the 12v system did all the software/control functions including operating the high voltage/high current switch that directs current towards the drive units.

If you have insufficient charge in the 12v system (charging fault, been left sitting a while etc) then the contactors aren't able to close and the car won't drive.
How did they solve the problem? It seems that the 12v battery is still an issue with some owners. Thanks for the tip about towing. Hopefully I'll never need it but it could help when contacting roadside assistance to ensure only a tow vehicle with the necessary flatbed arrives.
 

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Grogee, does the car perform some type of high voltage battery conditioning/energy consolidation during the night? Overnight, the state of charge drops 1% on occasion and lost 2% while sitting for the last 2 days. The hazard button is not illuminated so I'm wondering what SoC loss is considered normal. Dealer couldn't answer this question. Thanks.
 

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The charge depleting on its own does not surprise me, I don't know what the figures should be but I bet this is no different to a Tesla or Chevy Bolt etc. Left to its own devices the HV battery will 'look after' the 12v batteries and ensure their charge does not drop too low, this is done via the inverter unit where there will inevitably be some losses to heat. Together with the quiescent drain on the 12v battery systems (alarm, ECU memory retention etc) that would equate to a small drain on the HV battery.

It might be worth starting a thread to see what other i-PACE owners are getting (or losing) if they leave their cars unplugged/not charging overnight.
 

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Yes there's a difference. The 'neutral' setting is an electronic simulation of 'neutral' in a conventional car. In practice the motor, gearbox and battery are permanently connected (assuming contactors are closed - as they should be with "ignition" on).

If the vehicle is coasting in neutral, the system is directing charge around the HV network to simulate zero or near-zero load on the wheels. It's doing this in conjunction with the cooling system to ensure no part of the HV system overheats.

If the vehicle is towed on all four wheels, the cooling system is inactive, and charge builds in a switching unit (I forget its name, something like the Six Switch). This charge has nowhere to go as the motor generates a potential difference and the reason towing on four (or two) wheels is not recommended is because of the risk of arcing at/around this switch and consequent "thermal event" risk.
 

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The charge depleting on its own does not surprise me, I don't know what the figures should be but I bet this is no different to a Tesla or Chevy Bolt etc. Left to its own devices the HV battery will 'look after' the 12v batteries and ensure their charge does not drop too low, this is done via the inverter unit where there will inevitably be some losses to heat. Together with the quiescent drain on the 12v battery systems (alarm, ECU memory retention etc) that would equate to a small drain on the HV battery.

It might be worth starting a thread to see what other i-PACE owners are getting (or losing) if they leave their cars unplugged/not charging overnight.
My car sat outside in subfreezing temps (<20 F) for 10 days and displayed no loss of charge.
 

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Haven't read the thread but when we had prototype vehicles the difficulty was in keeping the 12v batteries charged sufficiently to enable the high-voltage contactors to operate.

In other words the 12v system did all the software/control functions including operating the high voltage/high current switch that directs current towards the drive units.

If you have insufficient charge in the 12v system (charging fault, been left sitting a while etc) then the contactors aren't able to close and the car won't drive.

On the subject of vehicle recovery - the parking brake can be released manually via the rear calipers and the vehicle can be dragged VERY slowly (less than walking pace) for a VERY short distance (ie onto a low-loader). Towing at speed with any of the wheels on the ground is a big no-no.
The "seized" thread is the one I created which can be found here:
https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/193-2018-jaguar-i-pace-ev-400-general-discussion/3815-car-seized-up-completely.html
 
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