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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello guys - I thought it would be an interesting topic to see how our IPace's compare to each other with regard to recharging and SOC.

While it would seem logical if our battery was at 50% SOC it would take around 40+Kw - or if down to 2%, take 84+ kw, this is generally not the case. Seems like many re-charges takes less Kw than one would expect. While there are expected losses and errors in wall units, perhaps we might see a pattern if enough guys chime in.

Therefore - When using your home or on a public charger, if you could post your remaining Mileage and Percentage then how Total Kw it takes to top it off, and finally your average Range per Charge it would be greatly appreciated.

Stay Safe - Mike
 

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Best estimates right now are (in mild ambient temps):

Level 1 charger loss ~25%
Level 2 charger loss ~13%
DCFC charger loss ~3%

Common scenario example: you charge from 20% to 70% on an L2 charger; ca. 42kWh added to the battery.
The L2 charger will report 42kWh * 1.13 = 47.5kWh consumed; which is what you'd see on your utility bill.

HTH
 

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Best estimates right now are (in mild ambient temps):

Level 1 charger loss ~25%
Level 2 charger loss ~13%
DCFC charger loss ~3%

Common scenario example: you charge from 20% to 70% on an L2 charger; ca. 42kWh added to the battery.
The L2 charger will report 42kWh * 1.13 = 47.5kWh consumed; which is what you'd see on your utility bill.

HTH
I am totally ignorant of battery physics so please help me with this. I'm seeing 7%-8% loss in cold weather with a level 2 charger. Does this sound right? Thanks.
 

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You may have a more efficient charger? Mine is ChargePoint ... although it should not really matter that much.
I'm going by the OBD port, if you're using WattCat it may be off. Cold weather vs my mild temps might make a difference too. What is everyone else getting?
 

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Here are the deepest charges reported by my Chargepoint for the handful of times I let the battery drop to single digit percentage ranges:
  • 88.01 kWh added and 235 estimated miles (2/5/20) (Car in low-power mode with 2% charge remaining!)
  • 88.33 kWh added and 236 estimated miles (10/11/19)
  • 85.97 kWh added and 229 estimated miles (9/25/19)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Many thanks guys for all the reply's - My H 264 car averages around 180 mile range and if I struggle I can get to 200 however I live in the mountains here in N Georgia.

Even down to 2% she only took 68 Kw to top it off. It should be reading 85+ Kw. Of course it may be an error of my Juice box reporting.

Everyone Stay Safe!

3733
 

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Mike, we've been through this several times as you know. Many folks on this site who know what they're talking about have advised you that you have a bad battery.
 

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Sciencegeek, you at some point mentioned an OBD port tool that you are beta testing. Any updates on that? I'd love to get more info on what my car is doing. Using the car's reported data (efficiency) to try to estimate the battery capacity is all over the map (varies for me from 75-82, with an average of 78 over 17 measurements). The projected range also averages at 284km (with a max of 337km). These are from trying to log multiple long trips and taking the 100*distance/∆SOC. I drive in comfort or eco mode, so the numbers look a bit lower than what people are reporting here, but maybe not so far off to be an obvious issue.

Thanks
 

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Sciencegeek, you at some point mentioned an OBD port tool that you are beta testing. Any updates on that? I'd love to get more info on what my car is doing.
Yeah the guy is responsive but maybe he's been slowed down a bit ... he's in Italy. He's fine but this corona situation affects us all doesn't it. The tool is called powercruisecontrol.com. The web site doesn't talk about the battery measurements. I hope he will make a public beta soon for the I-Pace!

Using the car's reported data (efficiency) to try to estimate the battery capacity is all over the map (varies for me from 75-82, with an average of 78 over 17 measurements). The projected range also averages at 284km (with a max of 337km).
Contrary to my first I-Pace where the bad battery caused the trip meter estimates to be way off, my new one tracks very nicely between Trip-meter reported efficiency and OBD-reported battery use.

These are from trying to log multiple long trips and taking the 100*distance/∆SOC. I drive in comfort or eco mode, so the numbers look a bit lower than what people are reporting here, but maybe not so far off to be an obvious issue.
Do you weigh the efficiencies by number of miles driven, as you can't just average the efficiencies themselves ... you have to average energy consumed (which can be done with %SoC as well).
 

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I use that for the battery capacity estimate. I take the distance for that segment, multiply by the efficiency to get a consumption for that leg. I then divide by the ∆SOC*100 to get an estimate of the battery capacity. So I use the reported efficiency and ∆SOC to estimate bat capacity and distance driven and ∆SOC to estimate range. Anything else I can get out of the data?
 

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Yep sounds right. I think that's about it as far as getting data. Do you get the battery Soc in kWh from WattCat? 78 kWh capacity is a bit low for my taste but I forget how many miles you have on it and what your ambient temperatures have been (cool :cool: I assume ;) )

Long trips imply high speeds for most miles ... is that what your 280km estimate comes from?
 

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Yep sounds right. I think that's about it as far as getting data. Do you get the battery Soc in kWh from WattCat? 78 kWh capacity is a bit low for my taste but I forget how many miles you have on it and what your ambient temperatures have been (cool :cool: I assume ;) )

Long trips imply high speeds for most miles ... is that what your 280km estimate comes from?
Sorry, I've been a Mac guy since the 1980's (I actually own a company that makes neuroscience equipment that is Mac based), so no WattCat. Maybe once I get my robot done (company R&D now being done in my basement), I should look into an iOS version of WattCat...

My dataset is definitely biased towards the long drives (more likely to record data on road trips) and the speeds have varied a lot, but 65mph is what I drive in Quebec and 70 when in the US. The 280km (sorry to be swapping back and forth between imperial and metric, it is the Canadian thing) is an average of 23 measurements and most of these were on long-ish trips. The range is 201-337 over the last year. I am at 18,000km (parked at exactly 18,000 at the moment). I've had 2 hybrids and was always easy on the gas, so I expected my range would have been on the higher side rather than the lower one. I forgot to add that the recent numbers were in winter, where the temps here are always below freezing, so lots of heater while sitting in traffic for short trips.
 

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I'll try to log the ∆SOC before/after charging and the amount put in. If I can assume ~13% losses on my home juicenet, that can give me another estimate of the batt capacity. I've got that for a few of the trip segments and those point to ~82kW. That sounds better at least...
 

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Sorry, I've been a Mac guy since the 1980's (I actually own a company that makes neuroscience equipment that is Mac based), so no WattCat. Maybe once I get my robot done (company R&D now being done in my basement), I should look into an iOS version of WattCat...
I'm completely Mac based as well (switched over when they finally moved to a unix based system), but you can get WattCat on your Mac. Just use BlueStacks. It took me a bit to get it up and running because I was very untrusting of BlueStacks when I started (denied most connections through LittleSnitch), but once it's working it's great.
 

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Best estimates right now are (in mild ambient temps):

Level 1 charger loss ~25%
Level 2 charger loss ~13%
DCFC charger loss ~3%

Common scenario example: you charge from 20% to 70% on an L2 charger; ca. 42kWh added to the battery.
The L2 charger will report 42kWh * 1.13 = 47.5kWh consumed; which is what you'd see on your utility bill.

HTH
I've been keeping track of kWh used by the charger and SoC added during a charging session since mid December. To date I've data for 25 charges. Using the SoC added to estimate the electricity needed for a full charge I am seeing very variable numbers ranging from 86-96kWh for a full charge. The average over 25 charges (usually ~20% - 100%) is 90.6kWh for a full charge. Assuming a usable battery charge of 84kWh, this corresponds to ~8% loss on charging.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Mike, we've been through this several times as you know. Many folks on this site who know what they're talking about have advised you that you have a bad battery.
Thanks for the reply - while I have mentioned short re-charge syndrome in other posts, this thread differs as it concentrates on re-charging capacities. There is a trend where many IPace batteries (mine included) are recharging in the lower 70Kw range. The discussion of recharging helps to understand our battery system more thoroughly.

Certainly because an IPace pack (84kw usable) only requires 70-75 Kw to re-charge, does not signify the pack is detective. Having worked with lithium military aircraft since the 90's, I found there are no two packs exactly the same. There are many variances in lithium chemistry and their construction which allows each cell to operate in different manners which is why we use cell balancing. In addition, the battery control module (BMS) itself can vary charging profiles and balancing.

When I recently took my car in for H264, my tech hooked up the car and communicated with the factory and found the battery to be in perfect condition with no evidence of a cell deterioration nor any bad cells in the modules as you eariler suggested to me. Testimonial, I'm achieving 180-200 miles in very hilly terrain here in North Georgia, which is normal for most IPace owners.

Stay Safe - Mike
 

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kW refers to the charging rate.
kWh refers to battery capacity.
I assume you mean kWh when you say 'Kw' in these posts.

If you only put in 70kWh to fill a 84kWh battery from near zero then you've found a way to generate energy out of nothing! Congratulations! ?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
kW refers to the charging rate.
kWh refers to battery capacity.
I assume you mean kWh when you say 'Kw' in these posts.

If you only put in 70kWh to fill a 84kWh battery from near zero then you've found a way to generate energy out of nothing! Congratulations! ?
While I appreciate your reply and comments, It was your evaluation my IPace battery was defective only to find out during my H264 update the battery is perfect.

Keep in mind I'm not faulting you, I understand your knowledge of an EV's lithium system is limited to only your experiences of owning your car and not a broad spectrum of understanding the chemical composition and construction of lithium packs, and how they differ from each other, plus the many variances in charging and balancing and BMC protocols. Fortunately, I work on a daily basis with lithium powered military equipment and the automotive industry. In fact, I recently designed a new lithium system for RV's with Lithionics Battery and the Xantrex Corporation. I included a link below for your review.


Keep Safe - Mike
 
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