[JaggaWatt]

if you are getting error messages before the h441 Then yes it is likely the 12v batteries.

 

[rcomeau]

It seems that the error messages are wrong more often than right. Why did they not have a reasonable 12v sanity check so each error would be triggered IF the sensor reports a problem AND the 12v system (on which the sensor depends to be truthful) passes? I realize this is rhetorical venting but really, 12v battery induced delirium is one of the most frequent issues here.

 

[Trielectric]

Is there any car with LG battery without recall/issue ? Bolt EV, Kona (soul ?? Niro ??), IPace, e-tron, Jeep PHEV. What else ?

LG batteries from Poland can go into:Audi, BMW, Daimler, Jaguar, Porsche, Renault, Stellantis, Volkswagen, Volvo, BMW , Daimler, Inos (the Grenadier ) &Fisker.

Volvo problems?, not that I have heard yet. ?

I am going in next week to get the H459 new software installed. I will be glad to get rid of this Traction Battery Fault alarm. I promise I will never fully charge my car again on a fast charger!

 

[Trielectric]

I Bought a used ipace (‘oct 18, 140k km) last month which is now showing the ‘hybrid battery error (press ok to dismiss)’ .

Are you sure the alarm said "hybrid" ?

 

[upnsmoke17]

I was finally contacted by Jaguar and my parts and software update 2 are on the way to my dealer. Hoping to finally resolve this after 5 months!

 

[rcomeau]

LG batteries from Poland can go into:Audi, BMW, Daimler, Jaguar, Porsche, Renault, Stellantis, Volkswagen, Volvo, BMW , Daimler, Inos (the Grenadier ) &Fisker.

Volvo problems?, not that I have heard yet. ?

I am going in next week to get the H459 new software installed. I will be glad to get rid of this Traction Battery Fault alarm. I promise I will never fully charge my car again on a fast charger!

I am not sure how a software update will get rid of the alarm if the root cause is a faulty battery. Was the new update to remove false positives (false alarms with a good battery), or because some cars did not get the original update done properly (or are there two distinct updates, one for each issue)?

 

[Trielectric]

I am not sure how a software update will get rid of the alarm if the root cause is a faulty battery. Was the new update to remove false positives (false alarms with a good battery), or because some cars did not get the original update done properly (or are there two distinct updates, one for each issue)?

My car is on the Federal website for an incomplete recall. The H441 software did not work well with my early 2019 as per Jaguars conversations with the Feds. It took two months for the traction battery fault alarm to come in after the H441 install. That was 2 days after spending time at 4 different fast chargers on the same day, before the alarm came in. That was the 1st time I had fast charged after getting H441 installed. This is what the new H459 software is supposed to fix on the early cars. If the new H459 software doesn't clear the alarm, then I will be getting cell replacement(s)(when the parts come in). Only certain early cars had this different original software and need the H459 software.

 

[rcomeau]

My understanding (a summary of all these update numbers would be great) was that if the H441 was not installed correctly then you would not get the alarm since it was not really installed) and the new update is to essentially do was H441 was supposed to do (the recall said that car were still at risk of fire which to me implies there was no new monitoring). I don't think the H459 was to address potential false positives, but to trigger the alarm that the failed H441 was supposed to do. There was talk of another update that might be used instead of replacing cells (assuming H441 and H459 were triggering errors for nothing) but at least in my case, that was dumped and a new module (that was flagged as bad) was finally ordered.

Does that all sound correct?

 

[Ayepace]

We do know that a major reason for H459 is to address cars alleged to have been updated but we're not due to tech using Pathfinder instead of TOPIx Cloud. Also, LGES told JLR that the original software wasn't right so those cars got thrown into the mix. See time-line in previously posted documents.

BS - original release
BT - first revised release when JLR detected use of Pathfinder use but no indication of failed install
BU - revision after more than expected defects reported? Nothing really documented what changed.
BV - most recent software and calibration files. H459 release or H441 if not previously installed.

Nothing more posted on NHTSA as of this post.

 

[Topdown500]

Once H441/H459 is installed the BECM checks the modules for faults. Any problem cell will only indicate when the battery is fully charged. More likely on a AC charge where the cells all balance out. Once the ‘ok to drive with caution Traction Battery fault detected’ and 72% charge limit is activated DTC. Code P1B48-00 is stored in the BECM. This code is ‘EV battery voltage deviation’. Dealer must run a test application ECU /Diagnostics / Battery Energy Control Module /Live Data-select parameter -EV -Battery Voltage Deviation Diagnosis (0x4A0B). The measured value is 36 pairs of digits and each pair indicates the status of each of the 36 battery modules. A non zero pair denotes a failure inside a battery module. For example if the sixth pair of digits is ‘01’ there is failure inside module 6.

Once the module has been replaced the fault code needs to be cleared for each module before running the diagnosis again to check all 36 modules are non zero pairs.

Once that is done another application is run to clear Diagnostic Touble Codes. Vehicle then needs to be locked and vehicle allowed to sleep for more than 10 minutes to enable the DTC to clear.

 

[Trielectric]

It is all a mute point for me. I will let you know Monday evening about what my car's alarm status is after the BECM update.

 

[dernotte]

I have just read this morning that GM is on its second software patch for the piece of code they put now in the bolt BECS to evaluate the bad cells ( instead of replacing the entire battery on every car)
Sound familiar ? They probably have the same advice from LG expert as the one JLR received 😎

 

[Trielectric]

Today I took my 2019 I-Pace in for the installation of the H459 software that I had discussed with the Service rep when I made the appointment. This morning the dealer has me sign a paper to install the newest version of the H441 software which I insist is the wrong software. They take my car in back for 2 hours then announce to me that Jaguar has stopped all software installations for the battery heating issue. They also told me if I pay them to reset my Traction battery fault alarm my warranty would be void. I'm still thinking about it. I looked up the recalls H459 & H441 on the Federal Recall website and indeed they inserted a paragraph into the recalls that the software investigation of the "bent tabs" is under further review.
RCLRPT-23V369-7704.PDF, H441 December 21, 2023, Page 1, Description of Defect, "The Investigation is ongoing"
RCLRPT-23V709-9397.PDF, H459 December 21, 2023, Page 2, Description of Defect, "The investigation into the technical issue that causes the original concern is ongoing."
The statement that drives 2019-2020 cars to H459 is:
"Additionally, the software supplier advised the latest software files released for
installation into 2019 and 20MY vehicles contains an error in part of its
diagnostics strategy and the required detection of battery module performance
issues is not fully present."

 

[rcomeau]

I would not at this point, remove the restrictions on the charging. The risk of fire is definitely higher than zero (higher than a "nominal" battery) and in addition to JLR not taking responsibility for any mishap, I'd worry that your insurance company, knowing that you deliberately ignored a significant safety warning from the manufacturer, night not cover any claims from any issues that come if it. Imagine it catches fire in a garage causing millions in damages, you may be hanging in the wind for that.

 

[Trielectric]

If you reset the trip, it doesn't change the fact that the software is still there, ready to trip it again. In addition to the fact that it was 2 & a half months after the software installation, until I got the Traction Batt trouble alarm, that came in after charging 4 times in one day at fast chargers.

 

[Topdown500]

If the trip is reset it might trip at the next full charge. Each full charge will stress the cell(s) with the voltage deviation and the result could be heat and possibly fire. This is what H441 is in stalled to detect and limit the charging.

 

[rcomeau]

If the trip is reset it might trip at the next full charge. Each full charge will stress the cell(s) with the voltage deviation and the result could be heat and possibly fire. This is what H441 is in stalled to detect and limit the charging.

What he said. The purpose is to flag suspect cells (using limited sensors and likely some statistics to make the determination) and not stop a singular event that would have led to a fire. It is kind of like resetting a breaker when a faulty appliance is occasionally shorting. You need to deal with the reason it is tripping the breaker, not get good at resetting the breaker all the time.

 

[Jase]

It occurred to me today that the delays in procuring replacement cells could stem from Jaguar prioritizing commercial customers, like Waymo. Anyone know if this could be the case?

 

[Qtown charger]

It occurred to me today that the delays in procuring replacement cells could stem from Jaguar prioritizing commercial customers, like Waymo. Anyone know if this could be the case?

In the correct and specific use of the word "could" - yes this could be the case. Just as bigfoot could exist. Aliens could be regularly visiting the earth. And the sun could go supernova tomorrow.
To my knowledge there is no evidence to suggest that these things are real or likely to happen, but they could. Thus, until somebody uncovers evidence to the contrary it is safe to assume "no", and I'm not going to lose sleep worrying about it.

 

[Trielectric]

I thought I read something recently that the self driving cars were being kicked out of California in 2024. I do not remember where I read it.