[sgtpeper]

Hi All,

Long time lurker (and poster on the facebook groups), first-time poster here.

Let me preferace this with the fact I'm car geek through and through. I grew up restoring classic E-Types, Triumphs, Alfas, etc. I currently have an X5 diesel as a daily driver for work, a Volvo XC90 for my wife, a Porsche 996 Turbo, and a classic Alfa Spider.

I'm in the real estate industry - realtor and developer and picked my diesel X5 as it was the most efficient option at the time. It's time for a new car and I want to do better. So, I'd like to go electric. I've driven the I-Pace - 4 times plus the dealer let me borrow their proto type one for the weekend. I've also driven a Model S and Model X from Tesla - the latter for over an hour today. The S seemed to lack any sportiness but the X seems better.

Below are my thoughts on driving both the I-Pace and Model X 100D in hopes you all can talk sense to me.

I-Pace
-The acceleration is amazing. It seems to have more torque than the Model X - at least in feel.
-The seats are much much better than the Model X.
-I'm short, but still like the giant roof on the Jag better than the weird tesla windshield - I live in Colorado and have had a ton of windshields replaced and can't imagine someone replacing the one on the Tesla.
-The tech is fine, but I did have problems on most of the cars they let me drive (3). I know this is being worked on, but will it ever be a really great system? I actually love the idrive on my BMW.
-Being able to use the nav quickly is important when I'm showing homes. Almost every single time I tried to use voice command it failed or took forever. I can use apple can play, but I just hate cords!
-I'm torn between the sport seats and the performance seats.
-I think it's dumb they didn't do a power tilt/telescope steering column. Even my 09 335 had that.

Model X 100D
-Roomier for clients overall.
-I don't really like the falcon doors as they take time and someone could feel claustrophobic back there. Also, anyone in the middle needs to be short - this was a 5 passenger version.
-I did find myself liking the infotainment much more. It seems to be less buggy and I did like controlling almost everything from the steering wheel.
-Because I get my cars through my own company, the fact the X is 6k lbs is great for a write-off.

Overall, I really felt like the Model X was like driving a Mercedes SUV - decent handling, lumbering, and swift. The Jag feels like a Jag should - much more like a sports car with some luxury. One of my big worries is that with all these initial issues, this car will go the way of the i3 - a great car that you can get for pennies on the dollar even new.

Normally, I think posting like this on a one-sided forum will just get fanboy responses, however, there seem to be enough people who love and hate their car on here.

Thanks for your responses and for having me on the forum!

Regards,

 

[sciencegeek]

You should make a completely rational choice with the objective being maximization of your net worth.

[Wait, did you say you're a car guy? You've restored etypes and alfas and triumphs? Are you joking? How is the Model Egg even on your radar?]

 

[PGhiron]

I really wanted to like the Model X. I drove it four times and then drove and X3, X5, Velar, Lexus, etc. I just couldn't get away from the fact that the X didn't have any real road feel at all. I felt totally disconnected from the road, and for that reason alone I waited 2 months for the JLR dealer to get an I-pace in for me to test. ONE drive and I was hooked and bought the car on the spot. Didn't even drive it a second time,I knew RIGHT AWAY, the jag was the way to go.

On the flip side I agree the X is much easier to get in and out of for your clients, but once inside the jag the seating and level of luxury far surpasses the X.

On the infotainment/GPS ease of use you are also correct the Jag has problems that need to be worked out, in the interim my work around has been extremely easy with Ask Google voice command which flawlessly finds every address with voice command.

 

[phil]

The 6,000 lbs is very nice, if you use the car largely for business. Also, the middle seat passenger in the Jaguar also needs to be short, so that's probably similar for the two cars.

The reason I didn't get a Tesla is the horrendous reliability and service. Tesla owners wait months for parts and repairs, if they can get them at all, and it seems to be getting even worse. Life is too short to spend any of it in Tesla's 'service-he11'. I trust that Jaguar will be better in this regard. Hope I'm right about that.

 

[McRat]

The Jag is shorter, quicker, and more dirt/snow/ice capable than the Model X 100D.
Simple features like storage compartments, blindspot mirrors, grab handles, HUD, 360° view, etc, are missing on the Tesla. The Jag can be driven without ever looking at the center display. There is no 'penalty box' for the autosteering. It looks at your hands apparently, not torque.

I haven't tried the Jaguar or Tesla voice NAV system. But all fall short of General Motors OnStar technology which is concierge-based. You don't have to know the exact correct name because you are talking with a human, then the turn by turn comes on the HUD/displays. This is still an area where a human does a better job.

But lets face it, both cars are strippers in the $90k luxury segment. The Jaguar has a leg up on the Tesla in that regard, but neither even has rear seat entertainment, rear reclining seats, rear massage, or privacy curtains. That's what you expect at $90k today. You are paying the EV tax, and nobody makes a full luxury EV yet.

IMO, the Jaguar i-Pace is the closest you get to a luxury EV so far. Not just features though. 'Feel' also. It feels like a premium car should when you are goofing off in it.

 

[Dantrium]

The Jag is shorter, quicker, and more dirt/snow/ice capable than the Model X 100D.
Simple features like storage compartments, blindspot mirrors, grab handles, HUD, 360° view, etc, are missing on the Tesla. The Jag can be driven without ever looking at the center display. There is no 'penalty box' for the autosteering. It looks at your hands apparently, not torque.

I haven't tried the Jaguar or Tesla voice NAV system. But all fall short of General Motors OnStar technology which is concierge-based. You don't have to know the exact correct name because you are talking with a human, then the turn by turn comes on the HUD/displays. This is still an area where a human does a better job.

But lets face it, both cars are strippers in the $90k luxury segment. The Jaguar has a leg up on the Tesla in that regard, but neither even has rear seat entertainment, rear reclining seats, rear massage, or privacy curtains. That's what you expect at $90k today. You are paying the EV tax, and nobody makes a full luxury EV yet.

IMO, the Jaguar i-Pace is the closest you get to a luxury EV so far. Not just features though. 'Feel' also. It feels like a premium car should when you are goofing off in it.

What he said...in a couple months you can get an E-Tron which will be closer to what you have with the X5, including the relatively bland 'personality'. The Jaguar does not suffer the same lack of dynamic looks and feel. You are trading a few luxo/convenience items for the uniqueness of the Jaguar, but I don't think you make nearly as many compromises (but different ones) as you do with the Tesla. But ultimately it comes down to what compromises are worth it to you.

 

[NerdUno]

Hate to be the practical one, but it would come down to proximity to a Tesla or JLR service center for me. Without a nearby Tesla service center, a Model X is next to worthless in my book. And then there's the issue of accident repairs. You can probably count on 3-6 months without your car in the case of a Model X accident. The horror stories are legendary.

 

[dtgsrq]

Hate to be the practical one, but it would come down to proximity to a Tesla or JLR service center for me. Without a nearby Tesla service center, a Model X is next to worthless in my book. And then there's the issue of accident repairs. You can probably count on 3-6 months without your car in the case of a Model X accident. The horror stories are legendary.

I'm with NERDUNO on #1 factor being 'proximity to dealer'. You're buying a seat at the beta-tester table for either vehicle. Interior and build quality SOOO much better on iPace and that's what sold me - also having a bit more 'traditional' set of buttons, dials, etc. appealed more than a big iPad to control everything. Passenger capacity was a consideration (my GL hauls 7, 8 in a pinch) but utility of seats 6,7 is really just an infrequent nice to have. I've driven both (not as many times as you) but preferred the handling of the iPace. Not a fan of the falcon doors, either - cool but ostentatious.



Lastly, vehicle weight for better tax deduction is nice on the X, but not really a factor - in fact unless you can take delivery of Tesla in next 10 days, the fact that Jag's $7500 rebate isn't vanishing on 12/31 like Tesla's offsets that a bit (as does the price).

 

[sgtpeper]

Thanks for the responses so far:

sciencegeek - I agree, the X isn't that pretty. With the 22" wheels it does look significantly better though (but not better than the I-Pace).

Pghiron - I completely agree. I just wish more companies would go to wireless apple play and such like BMW has.

Phil - that's a great point and one that does make a difference for me.

McrRat - I agree with you as well. I'm used to the touch and feel of my BMW and Porsche at this point. The jag does seem to be the closest to this overall.

Dantrium - E-Tron seems decent on paper, but way slower, similar range, and just doesn't seem special. It's really a larger Q5 with batteries to me.

NerdUno - I have both a Jag and Tesla service area relatively close to me in Denver.

dtgsrq - I would be able to take delivery of the Tesla before year end still so it would matter.


All around, I'm still very much leaning toward the Jag!

 

[fedorachef]

Hi All,

Long time lurker (and poster on the facebook groups), first-time poster here.

Let me preferace this with the fact I'm car geek through and through. I grew up restoring classic E-Types, Triumphs, Alfas, etc. I currently have an X5 diesel as a daily driver for work, a Volvo XC90 for my wife, a Porsche 996 Turbo, and a classic Alfa Spider.

I'm in the real estate industry - realtor and developer and picked my diesel X5 as it was the most efficient option at the time. It's time for a new car and I want to do better. So, I'd like to go electric. I've driven the I-Pace - 4 times plus the dealer let me borrow their proto type one for the weekend. I've also driven a Model S and Model X from Tesla - the latter for over an hour today. The S seemed to lack any sportiness but the X seems better.

Below are my thoughts on driving both the I-Pace and Model X 100D in hopes you all can talk sense to me.

I-Pace
-The acceleration is amazing. It seems to have more torque than the Model X - at least in feel.
-The seats are much much better than the Model X.
-I'm short, but still like the giant roof on the Jag better than the weird tesla windshield - I live in Colorado and have had a ton of windshields replaced and can't imagine someone replacing the one on the Tesla.
-The tech is fine, but I did have problems on most of the cars they let me drive (3). I know this is being worked on, but will it ever be a really great system? I actually love the idrive on my BMW.
-Being able to use the nav quickly is important when I'm showing homes. Almost every single time I tried to use voice command it failed or took forever. I can use apple can play, but I just hate cords!
-I'm torn between the sport seats and the performance seats.
-I think it's dumb they didn't do a power tilt/telescope steering column. Even my 09 335 had that.

Model X 100D
-Roomier for clients overall.
-I don't really like the falcon doors as they take time and someone could feel claustrophobic back there. Also, anyone in the middle needs to be short - this was a 5 passenger version.
-I did find myself liking the infotainment much more. It seems to be less buggy and I did like controlling almost everything from the steering wheel.
-Because I get my cars through my own company, the fact the X is 6k lbs is great for a write-off.

Overall, I really felt like the Model X was like driving a Mercedes SUV - decent handling, lumbering, and swift. The Jag feels like a Jag should - much more like a sports car with some luxury. One of my big worries is that with all these initial issues, this car will go the way of the i3 - a great car that you can get for pennies on the dollar even new.

Normally, I think posting like this on a one-sided forum will just get fanboy responses, however, there seem to be enough people who love and hate their car on here.

Thanks for your responses and for having me on the forum!

Regards,

I'm a previous owner of a Tesla Model X, actually two, and experienced a ton of problems. First one was bought back because of so many fit and finish issues (paint runs, misaligned body panels, interior rattle and noises, stitching not complete on seats, and more). Second one was better but still fair share of issues and spent most of its life with service. One of the most annoying issues was with that front windshield. It gave me double vision at night. It's all over the Tesla forums. I actually got hooked up with a really good senior tech from Tesla and he personally took care of as much as he could on my car. He found a windshield that didn't have what they were calling ghosting issues. Also that windshield is around $1500 to replace. The one issue no one could figure out is why my driver window constantly came off track after rolling it down then back up. I'm not kidding, they came out to my house and changed the window regulator seven times in the driver door. I had similar issue in the passenger door and after four regulators it was fixed. My buddy at Tesla said they have way better luck with the Model S than the X. That's the reason they use Model S's as their ranger cars vs the X from what he told me. The doors are another story. They had many, many, adjustments and lubing. They were actually were fine after I traded it in, but they became more of a nuisance after the cool factor wore off. I had mixed experiences with Tesla service, but did start to notice longer that usually wait times, believe it was because the Model 3 was taking priority. I used to be able to call into Tesla service and someone would pick-up right away and be able to address my question or problem fairly quickly or get me in touch with someone from the nearest service center. That then changed to wait times of 45-60 mins and impossible to get service appts. I did like the home service, but that's only good for certain things. For me I just had way too many problems. I also missed having a more sportier car. I'm surprised you felt the S wasn't sporty or sporty enough. That's the one thing I really like about the S. I had the P100D, brand new, as a loaner for a couple months and thought it was great. I'm 6'1 avg build and did have some challenges getting in and out of it.
I do like the I-Pace a lot better as far as build quality, comfortable, and drivability. I'm not liking the range and charging capabilities. It charges a lot slower than my Tesla and I'm getting about 190-195 real world range. It's actually been at the service center this week because I brought up concern about range, rattling noise in the front struts, and squeaky brake pedal. For the dealer I'm going to service is poor. I think this is mainly due to the car being so new and the lack of training and experience. For range concern they stated the engineering team in NJ ran some tests on my car and everything is working as expected. They stated avg max range is 210 miles. That's fine for your average driving I guess, but not for longer trips. I used to take the Tesla up and down CA and only had to stop once for a charge. Since the fast charging network isn't really up yet I wouldn't try a trip like this in the I-Pace. Charging the Tesla at home I would get 54/55 miles per hours. I-Pace on the home Chargepoint charger gets 20 miles per hour. Argument I've seen on this is that most people only drive 30 - 40 miles in an average day so slow charging at home, overnight, should be fine. I don't really agree with this because I drive a lot more than that and since chargers are really in convenient locations I want to charge at home in between running around. Maybe I just drive too much, but I live in the bay area and there's a lot to do and see in all different areas. Plus the I-Pace is supposedly showing you a dialed in real world range estimate, but its still a guess o meter. Example, I was fully charged showing estimated range of 210 miles. I drove to the Sacramento airport which is 54 miles from home. The car used 73 miles on the way there and 84 miles on the way back. On the way there I drove conservatively with no heater/ac on. On the way back I used dynamic mode for about ten minuets and had the ac on about half the way. Doing that same trip in my MX I always just drove and always had the ac or heater on. You use the AC a lot in the MX because its always stuffy; not sure why. I usually drove the MX aggressively and used about 65 miles. The I-Pace isn't as efficient as a Tesla.
Sorry this is way too long. Just my feedback on my experiences so far.

 

[sgtpeper]

Thanks fedorachef! That's a great comparison. Which car to you prefer overall?

All Teslas feel more boat like to me than the I-Pace. There's a nicer somewhat raw feel to the I-Pace that I like.

I have 3 other gas cars I can use for long drives - most notably my wife's XC90 which is the family hauler anyway.

I like that my X5 seems to have that feeling of refinement and yet still handles incredibly well so it seems to be a bit of a jack of all trades. That said, I had to pay a ton to get the DSP suspension and M-Diff on a diesel M-Sport... The dealer laughed at me for ordering it this way...

 

[sciencegeek]

I have 3 other gas cars I can use for long drives - most notably my wife's XC90 which is the family hauler anyway.

Same here (Touareg instead of XC). That's why I feel fine about the iPace not quite having the long range one would like ...

Honestly though, around here there are Model Eggs everywhere and while style is in the eye of the beholder the iPace is by far the more interesting vehicle.

Regarding your seat question: I originally ordered the Sport seats but changed to the Performance ones. I didn't like the way the Sport seat headrest pushed my head forward; the performance seats are amazing to me, plus they look totally awesome.

Lastly, I don't have my iPace yet and feel for the folks who are at the bleeding edge of the early adopter cliff, causing some to consider jumping off; but the most widespread and frustrating issues are "just" about software .. which will eventually get fixed. What matters more IMO is the durability, and the fit and finish, of the physical machine. Oh and did I mention that it's the best-looking crossover out there?

 

[Dantrium]

Thanks for the responses so far:

sciencegeek - I agree, the X isn't that pretty. With the 22" wheels it does look significantly better though (but not better than the I-Pace).

Pghiron - I completely agree. I just wish more companies would go to wireless apple play and such like BMW has.

Phil - that's a great point and one that does make a difference for me.

McrRat - I agree with you as well. I'm used to the touch and feel of my BMW and Porsche at this point. The jag does seem to be the closest to this overall.

Dantrium - E-Tron seems decent on paper, but way slower, similar range, and just doesn't seem special. It's really a larger Q5 with batteries to me.

NerdUno - I have both a Jag and Tesla service area relatively close to me in Denver.

dtgsrq - I would be able to take delivery of the Tesla before year end still so it would matter.


All around, I'm still very much leaning toward the Jag!

like I said the etron will have a relatively bland 'personality', but you have that with the X5, so maybe it's ok. Don't get me wrong, I really like Audi's, BMW's & MB's, but the mainstream ones are very similar and all pretty bland looking...no 'personality'

 

[sgtpeper]

I can see the argument that the X5 is bland looking - although mine is an M-Sport with the staggered 20" wheels so it sticks out a bit more at least.

The difference is that the E-Tron also seem to drive blandly from early reports. My X5 with all the suspension options, drives really really well -for a 6k lb SUV.

Re: Performance Seats vs Sport Seats - The reason I'm torn on that is that some of my clients are bigger fellows and I'm worried the bolsters will be uncomfortable for them when I'm showing homes.

 

[WattAJag]

One or two other comments that I didn't see anybody touch on, yet.

The manual steering wheel adjustment is an "odd choice" for the most expensive car Jag currently makes, but ... I find that it's only an issue if you have 2 very different sized drivers regularly swapping the car. That's not a problem I have, so basically, I'll set the steering wheel once, and probably never change it for the life of the car. So, I'm happy not having the weight of the motors it would take to adjust it sapping my battery.

Also, you can control many things in the car with the controls on the wheel that they don't talk much to you about. The little wheel on the left does volume, and the arrows around it change stations based on your favorites.

The Jag Nav voice control could become one of the largest causes of suicide worldwide. Avoid it. Talk to your phone.

 

[sgtpeper]

WattAJag - you are correct for the wheel. However, on my X5, when you get out the steering wheel goes up and in to make it easier to get out. It's just a nice touch. On my OLD X5, when you got in and out the steering wheel moved AND the seat bolsters widened. I LOVED that feature - always made me feel like I was putting on Darth Vador's suit or something...

I did notice what you can control with the steering wheel. I'm somewhat disappointed that the learning button can't be made to do anything you want - only limited options for each type of press. Again, BMW got this part right and gave you hot keys that can take on any feature. For example, I had one that would just set the nav to take me home, one to call my wife, etc etc. I like pushing things! Talking to the car means I miss part of a song!

 

[fedorachef]

Thanks fedorachef! That's a great comparison. Which car to you prefer overall?

All Teslas feel more boat like to me than the I-Pace. There's a nicer somewhat raw feel to the I-Pace that I like.

I have 3 other gas cars I can use for long drives - most notably my wife's XC90 which is the family hauler anyway.

I like that my X5 seems to have that feeling of refinement and yet still handles incredibly well so it seems to be a bit of a jack of all trades. That said, I had to pay a ton to get the DSP suspension and M-Diff on a diesel M-Sport... The dealer laughed at me for ordering it this way...

I-Pace

 

[phila]

Hi All,

Long time lurker (and poster on the facebook groups), first-time poster here.

Let me preferace this with the fact I'm car geek through and through. I grew up restoring classic E-Types, Triumphs, Alfas, etc. I currently have an X5 diesel as a daily driver for work, a Volvo XC90 for my wife, a Porsche 996 Turbo, and a classic Alfa Spider.

I'm in the real estate industry - realtor and developer and picked my diesel X5 as it was the most efficient option at the time. It's time for a new car and I want to do better. So, I'd like to go electric. I've driven the I-Pace - 4 times plus the dealer let me borrow their proto type one for the weekend. I've also driven a Model S and Model X from Tesla - the latter for over an hour today. The S seemed to lack any sportiness but the X seems better.

Below are my thoughts on driving both the I-Pace and Model X 100D in hopes you all can talk sense to me.

I-Pace
-The acceleration is amazing. It seems to have more torque than the Model X - at least in feel.
-The seats are much much better than the Model X.
-I'm short, but still like the giant roof on the Jag better than the weird tesla windshield - I live in Colorado and have had a ton of windshields replaced and can't imagine someone replacing the one on the Tesla.
-The tech is fine, but I did have problems on most of the cars they let me drive (3). I know this is being worked on, but will it ever be a really great system? I actually love the idrive on my BMW.
-Being able to use the nav quickly is important when I'm showing homes. Almost every single time I tried to use voice command it failed or took forever. I can use apple can play, but I just hate cords!
-I'm torn between the sport seats and the performance seats.
-I think it's dumb they didn't do a power tilt/telescope steering column. Even my 09 335 had that.

Model X 100D
-Roomier for clients overall.
-I don't really like the falcon doors as they take time and someone could feel claustrophobic back there. Also, anyone in the middle needs to be short - this was a 5 passenger version.
-I did find myself liking the infotainment much more. It seems to be less buggy and I did like controlling almost everything from the steering wheel.
-Because I get my cars through my own company, the fact the X is 6k lbs is great for a write-off.

Overall, I really felt like the Model X was like driving a Mercedes SUV - decent handling, lumbering, and swift. The Jag feels like a Jag should - much more like a sports car with some luxury. One of my big worries is that with all these initial issues, this car will go the way of the i3 - a great car that you can get for pennies on the dollar even new.

Normally, I think posting like this on a one-sided forum will just get fanboy responses, however, there seem to be enough people who love and hate their car on here.

Thanks for your responses and for having me on the forum!

Regards,

I live in a country where Tesla likely has sold the most cars, Norway. They are all over the place here as they really were the first family friendly EV on market, until the I-Pace was launched and now some others are popping up as well from Kia and Hyundai and by 2020 VW, Audi and Mercedes will be launching here as well. I was never interested in Tesla, mainly because of all of the issues that people are having with them and still are having even with the newest models. My wife had a fender bender with our old, diesel car a couple weeks ago and we planned on getting rid of this thing in 2019 anyway, this simply accelerated the process as i was not about to invest another penny in this old clunker. Drove it to the local dealership with my young son in my arms, walked in and asked if they had any available I-Paces. Got a loaner for the weekend right away, we drove around as much as we could on 1 charge and was hooked. Went back Monday and left my damaged old diesel there at obviously a low price and drove away with an I-Pace. Was a no brainer for me and my wife once we had driven around with it. She felt really safe and secure and for the first time in my life i was nice and relaxed in the passenger seat beside her as she was driving

Sure I have also had issues with the I-Pace mainly around the infotainment system blacking out and being unusable, however since I deleted all traces of my Android phone from the infotainment system it has been stable. All in all, i do not trust Tesla as a company enough yet to give them any of my time. Jaguar / Land Rover have had their rocky roads financially as well and just read again that they are planning some lay offs, however they have been around much longer then Tesla possibly ever will, and that also played an important factor. We have a 1 car only policy for now and the I-Pace ticked off all boxes we required even with a growing family.

In your situation where you are driving clients, I certainly would be much more impressed by getting into a Jaguar I-Pace then into any sort of Tesla

 

[jsimon7777]

I never could quite make myself by a Tesla car. They're good in the motor and battery. Suspension is OK. The rest is meh to crap. It's like buying a speaker setup because of the amazing bass, but the mid and highs are mediocre. I'd rather have something that's a better overall car.

The FW doors are just stupid. Auto present is a buggy waste. Autopilot is dangerous.

So do you need the tesla range? Do you get excited at the idea of free charging. Of course you have to sit on your ass while it charges, but it's "free".

Teslas work more on the idea level than the reality level. Reality is plugging in at night, and electricity is cheaper than gas. Reality is driving 80 miles a day, and rarely if ever over 150. Reality is that anybody buying an ipace has a second or third ICE car for that once or a twice a year 300 mile drive. Reality is that paying attention to driving is safer than trusting in a poorly designed neural net. Reality is that I spend far more time sitting in a comfortable or uncomfortable seat than I do accelerating to 60.

In the end, the main reason to get a Model X is so that you can fit 7 people in an EV. Tempting, but for 90k? I'd rather buy an ipace and the get a minivan for the odd days.

 

[McRat]

If I still had a need for a >5 person car anymore, I cannot fathom why a Model X would be on my shopping list. The 3rd row is a Kiddy Row. It's seats are 4" less headspace, 10" less hip, and 7" less legroom. Note that a 42" pallet will not fit, nor 48" wide materials. The MX100D 1250lb max people + cargo. Which makes the 5000lb tow capacity somewhat of a joke if you like safety and carry >10% of tongue weight.

Shop options at 7+ passengers to see what I mean. Rear entertainment is offered in most. The MX100D 1250lb max people + cargo. You'd actually be pushing it to take 6 adults to the airport with luggage. It's no Suburban or Mini-Van by a long shot. Gullwing doors make it even less practical since airport parking is often 7' max clearance with beams and plumbing in the way. Sliding doors are wiser and conventional doors are still superior.

When I was in the need for people movers, it was a E350 15 passenger van (laoded >3,000lb in it with a forklift, towed >8,000lb another time, and had up to 12 people inside. But that is a "1-Ton" chassis, which is in a different league from cars. Tire ratings at 3400lb each at 80psi.
Then we went through two luxury mini-vans (Oldsmobiles) that were very, very child friendly, but were nice enough so we did not have to apologize to adults.

I see the Tesla MX as a Rolex Sedan. It's a fashion item, but not more useful than it's competition. There is a reason the rich are seen more in Escalades, Suburbans, and Full size Vans than Model X's. Well, that and you can't add 2,000lb of armor to a Tesla and still have it be useful.


Perspective: We put 5 people in an E350 with 20 sheets of 4x8 plywood. Or we towed >8000lb with 6 people and 4 hunting dogs and perhaps 100 decoys about 1000 miles where Tesla still has no support for charging. But an MX loaded like that would either break or have a <100mi range. It would have hated the rutted dirt fireroads too.