Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
3,049 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's a quick primer on charging the I-Pace, anno 2020

Nominal battery capacity is 90kWh, but there's a bottom and a top buffer of actual use, and a top and bottom buffer for displaying 0% to 100%. For purposes of discussion, I'm going to round things off and assert that there are 80kWh in the battery in the range of 0% to 100%.

I-Pace uses the CCS standard, which is not compatible with Chademo or Tesla Superchargers. CCS has a subtype, J-1772, which is a reduced plug for Trickle- or Level 2-charging. Thus, the I-Pace fast-charges via a CCS plug and Level2-charges via a J-1772 plug on the charger.

Each entry:
Mode of charging
1. Supplier
2. Charger specs
3. Time it takes from X to Y% SoC

Trickle charging
1. Jaguar-supplied cable that comes with the car in the US
2. 110V, standard home outlet.
3. Charges at about 1kW, so going from 0% to 100%, or 80kWh, will take 80 hours.

Level 2 charging
1. ChargePoint and a host of other suppliers for home, as well as Tesla Destination Chargers and Level 2 chargers installed at hotels and such
2. Typical specs are 240V / 32Amp outlet (e.g., via a NEMA 14-50 plug at home on a 50 Amp circuit), i.e., 7.2kW charging
3. Because this is AC charging that goes via a DC converter there is about 10% loss. So, assuming 6ish kW going into the battery, we're looking at 13 hours to go from 0% to 100%

DC Fast Charging (DCFC)
1. ChargePoint, Electrify America (EA), EVgo, and other fast charging suppliers. Akin to gas stations.
2. The most common type is currently 50kW. Faster chargers such as the more recent EA have greater nominal power; but the I-Pace throttles charging as the battery fills up, and so the average charging rate is in a fairly narrow band around 50kW.
3.a. A 50kW charger will charge at 50kW to 80%, then throttles. Thus, 0% to 80% takes about 1:15 hours. Another 20 min to get to 90%. Getting to 100% is a waste of time.
3.b. A 150kW charger will start charging at about 80kW but be quickly throttled down. Thus, 0%-80% will take about 1 hour. Then same as for 3.a. above
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Exactly.... Thanks for this.

1kw for trickle 110v charging cable and 6-6.5kw from a level 2 charger in my garage at home.

My car definitely charges differently depending on DCFC power, battery temp and SOC. On a local 50kw charger, I get close to 50kw all the way up to about 65%SOC before it throttles. At another 350kw charger, I've never seen more than 48kw, even at 50%SOC and lower and by 65%SOC, the power throttles to 40kw or less.

So for my car and local DCFC stations, I'm looking at significantly longer than 1 - 1.5hrs to get to 80% from low SOC.

I don't have the H264 updates and my present telematics/battery software is at version 15.2, with no updates available at my local JLR dealership/service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Excellent looks like I’ve found the knowledge base.
I’m in OZ so it’s all 240v/50hz or 415 3 phase.
Standard 10 amp set up 2400w = 37 hrs

Been offered 3 phase #2 cable set up which claims to deliver 22Kw on 32 amp circuit?
Is this an option, no doubt it’s not using the on board charger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Excellent looks like I’ve found the knowledge base.
I’m in OZ so it’s all 240v/50hz or 415 3 phase.
Standard 10 amp set up 2400w = 37 hrs

Been offered 3 phase #2 cable set up which claims to deliver 22Kw on 32 amp circuit?
Is this an option, no doubt it’s not using the on board charger?
According to the lads over on the UK based ipace forums AC Charge is limited to 7Kw. The only way you'd be able to get more is it the charger output DC. So unless the charge cord has those two big DC pins I reckon it's going to max out at 7Kw. You might want to double check over on one of the UK forums since their power system is similar to yours.
 

·
Registered
2019 iPace HSE Silicon Silver/Oyster
Joined
·
10 Posts
CCS has a subtype, J-1772, which is a reduced plug for Trickle- or Level 2-charging. Thus, the I-Pace fast-charges via a CCS plug and Level2-charges via a J-1772 plug on the charger.
Just back from dealer checking on repair ETA for my 2019 HSE (Level 3 charging issues grrrr....). Spoke to knowledgeable shop manager/iPace driver/iPace tech who shared a few interesting tidbits:

1) TL;DR US Level 1 chargers are called Level 2 by JLR and iPace techs.
Per @sciencegeek it appears that the smaller J-1772 charger that ships with the iPace and plugs into a 110V outlet here in the US (ergo, what we Yanks would assume is a "Level 1" charger), is actually deemed a "Level 2 charger" by JLR, since the UK standard mains power is 240V and in the UK this standard charger is therefore delivering 240v. Thus, a US "home charger" fitted with the lighter "pistol" with 5 pins (typically wired as 220v single phase), e.g. Chargepoint, JuiceBox, etc. is deemed a "Level 2 charger" as well, and JLR refers to Level 3 chargers as those that use the full CCS bigger pistol with seven pins and the heavier cable.

2) after experiencing many months of repeated Level 3 charging failures on Chargepoint DC Fast chargers, 50K AC chargers, EVGo and EA DC fast chargers (sometimes requiring multiple phone calls on rainy nights in deserted parking lots to re-set, and re-set, and re-set the charger), the tech believes the culprit may be that the standard 12v battery may not have had sufficient amp/hour reserves.

Apparently the 12V battery is used to power what I'd call a "relay" to connect the high-voltage batteries to the chargeport's charging harness. His theory is that if the 12V battery charge is lower than 12v (due to heavy use of wipers, radio, A/C or a too-small batttery), the relay cannot be powered and so the charging cycle does not initiate, or quickly fails. Tech recommends leaving the car ON while engaging an L3 charging event, as apparently the 12V battery is re-charged by the high-voltage battery bank when the car is on, and will therefore enable the relay. He also recommends charging IMMEDIATELY upon stopping, rather that sitting in iPace that's switched off with lights, A/C/heat, radio, etc. drawing power.

Tech is replacing the 12V battery with a higher amp/hour ("cold cranking capacity") battery and has updated the BECM. Fingers crossed.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
178 Posts
MySkyCar, you should ask your I-Pace Tech to find an AGM battery to replace the larger 47ah Start Battery.

I have replaced mine with a 55ah AGM Battery usually installed in stand by power UPS for computers and medical equipment. This battery has a 0.5 Volt higher float voltage that matches the small Auxiliary AGM battery. By matching the battery float voltage characteristics, the Large start battery does not need steal the higher voltage from the small battery when starting the car or starting timed charging when the car is unattended.

Cheers, Steve

P.S. My Aussie supplied battery>
You will need Battery Terminal adapters like these>
Yuasa M6 to SAE Terminal Adaptor Set 23298859 | MDS Battery
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Here's a quick primer on charging the I-Pace, anno 2020

Nominal battery capacity is 90kWh, but there's a bottom and a top buffer of actual use, and a top and bottom buffer for displaying 0% to 100%. For purposes of discussion, I'm going to round things off and assert that there are 80kWh in the battery in the range of 0% to 100%.

I-Pace uses the CCS standard, which is not compatible with Chademo or Tesla Superchargers. CCS has a subtype, J-1772, which is a reduced plug for Trickle- or Level 2-charging. Thus, the I-Pace fast-charges via a CCS plug and Level2-charges via a J-1772 plug on the charger.

Each entry:
Mode of charging
1. Supplier
2. Charger specs
3. Time it takes from X to Y% SoC

Trickle charging
1. Jaguar-supplied cable that comes with the car in the US
2. 110V, standard home outlet.
3. Charges at about 1kW, so going from 0% to 100%, or 80kWh, will take 80 hours.

Level 2 charging
1. ChargePoint and a host of other suppliers for home, as well as Tesla Destination Chargers and Level 2 chargers installed at hotels and such
2. Typical specs are 240V / 32Amp outlet (e.g., via a NEMA 14-50 plug at home on a 50 Amp circuit), i.e., 7.2kW charging
3. Because this is AC charging that goes via a DC converter there is about 10% loss. So, assuming 6ish kW going into the battery, we're looking at 13 hours to go from 0% to 100%

DC Fast Charging (DCFC)
1. ChargePoint, Electrify America (EA), EVgo, and other fast charging suppliers. Akin to gas stations.
2. The most common type is currently 50kW. Faster chargers such as the more recent EA have greater nominal power; but the I-Pace throttles charging as the battery fills up, and so the average charging rate is in a fairly narrow band around 50kW.
3.a. A 50kW charger will charge at 50kW to 80%, then throttles. Thus, 0% to 80% takes about 1:15 hours. Another 20 min to get to 90%. Getting to 100% is a waste of time.
3.b. A 150kW charger will start charging at about 80kW but be quickly throttled down. Thus, 0%-80% will take about 1 hour. Then same as for 3.a. above
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
I've got a 21MY I-Pace (located in Germany) and I'm not getting anywhere near 100kW at a rapid CCS charger. At best I'm getting 52kW. I've got all the latest software updates and I've tried 4 or so different chargers - I'm wondering if I've got an issue with the car? I've seen plenty of independent reviewers who have gotten 100kW, even at low operating temps.
 

·
Registered
MY21 Portofino Blue HSE, Pano Roof, Clearsight Mirror, Air Suspension & AD, Upgraded Cabin Light
Joined
·
356 Posts
I've got a 21MY I-Pace (located in Germany) and I'm not getting anywhere near 100kW at a rapid CCS charger. At best I'm getting 52kW. I've got all the latest software updates and I've tried 4 or so different chargers - I'm wondering if I've got an issue with the car? I've seen plenty of independent reviewers who have gotten 100kW, even at low operating temps.
I have had over 100Kw in mine

I only tend to get high charging speeds when the battery is depleted, you don't get 120 Kwh when the battery is at 90% but you might at 10%

Sometimes the chargers aren't that great and won't charge at a really high speed anyway irrespective of the starting SoC. The battery also needs to be close to optimum temperature to achieve maximum charge rates.

You can't just plug it into a 150Kwh charger and expect to get that in all situations. For what it is worth I have generally found the 50 Kwh charges the most reliable in delivering a consistent charge rate faster chargers often do not deliver significantly better results yet can cost an awful lot more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
I've got a 21MY I-Pace (located in Germany) and I'm not getting anywhere near 100kW at a rapid CCS charger. At best I'm getting 52kW. I've got all the latest software updates and I've tried 4 or so different chargers - I'm wondering if I've got an issue with the car? I've seen plenty of independent reviewers who have gotten 100kW, even at low operating temps.
Hi,
I also have an 21MY, since January this year, and am located in Germany.
So far I have only once had over 100 kW/h (until about 45% SoC) and that was at an Ionity Tritium charger (350 kW, single connection), starting SoC 18%, ambient temperature 20C, after driving about 80 minutes at 130 kmh on the Autobahn.
Some of the rapid chargers share the internal modules. For example, an EnBW 150 kW Alpitronic charger has two 75 kW modules so you will "only" be able to draw max 75 kW even under optimal conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Here's a quick primer on charging the I-Pace, anno 2020

Nominal battery capacity is 90kWh, but there's a bottom and a top buffer of actual use, and a top and bottom buffer for displaying 0% to 100%. For purposes of discussion, I'm going to round things off and assert that there are 80kWh in the battery in the range of 0% to 100%.

I-Pace uses the CCS standard, which is not compatible with Chademo or Tesla Superchargers. CCS has a subtype, J-1772, which is a reduced plug for Trickle- or Level 2-charging. Thus, the I-Pace fast-charges via a CCS plug and Level2-charges via a J-1772 plug on the charger.

Each entry:
Mode of charging
1. Supplier
2. Charger specs
3. Time it takes from X to Y% SoC

Trickle charging
1. Jaguar-supplied cable that comes with the car in the US
2. 110V, standard home outlet.
3. Charges at about 1kW, so going from 0% to 100%, or 80kWh, will take 80 hours.

Level 2 charging
1. ChargePoint and a host of other suppliers for home, as well as Tesla Destination Chargers and Level 2 chargers installed at hotels and such
2. Typical specs are 240V / 32Amp outlet (e.g., via a NEMA 14-50 plug at home on a 50 Amp circuit), i.e., 7.2kW charging
3. Because this is AC charging that goes via a DC converter there is about 10% loss. So, assuming 6ish kW going into the battery, we're looking at 13 hours to go from 0% to 100%

DC Fast Charging (DCFC)
1. ChargePoint, Electrify America (EA), EVgo, and other fast charging suppliers. Akin to gas stations.
2. The most common type is currently 50kW. Faster chargers such as the more recent EA have greater nominal power; but the I-Pace throttles charging as the battery fills up, and so the average charging rate is in a fairly narrow band around 50kW.
3.a. A 50kW charger will charge at 50kW to 80%, then throttles. Thus, 0% to 80% takes about 1:15 hours. Another 20 min to get to 90%. Getting to 100% is a waste of time.
3.b. A 150kW charger will start charging at about 80kW but be quickly throttled down. Thus, 0%-80% will take about 1 hour. Then same as for 3.a. above

Thank you for this detailed explanation. I was concerned at first because my 2019 I-Pace seemed to take forever to charge, much slower than what the Jaguar videos show. I now realize that these are somewhat optimistic.
After several months of ownership, I explain it to people this way:

Level 1 charging at home works out to about one per cent per hour. Thus leaving it charging for 12 hours during "off-peak" gets you 12 percentage points, or maybe a bit more.

Level 2 charging, such as at municipal parking lots, works out to about one per cent every five minutes. Thus 12 per cent an hour, or 12 times that rate of the Level 1. This is nice if you are going to be at work, or if you are going to spend a couple of hours shopping and having lunch, or going to a movie etc.

Level 3 charges at about one per cent per minute, thus, as stated above, 90 minutes would give you 90 per cent, as long as you are between the two buffered zones.

One thing I have noticed is that temperature dos not seem to play much of a role in charging, although it does have a real effect on range. My charging times back in the middle of Canadian winter were not much different, if at all, from charging now in the warmth of summer.

But range really has improved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Among the many cautions and warnings in the manual is one against using an extension cord. However I see EVs plugged in with extension cords quite regularly.

Some of the vacation cottages we go to do have outdoor sockets, but sometimes I'd have to park on the grass in order to get close enough.

I have a Mastercraft (Canadian Tire) contractor-grade power bar which has 15-gauge cable, 1.8 meters, and surge protection.

Does anyone know if there is any serious drawback to using something like this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
343 Posts
A recent writeup online stated they got a faster full charge (when discharged to less than 10percent), by using a 40kw DC charger, versus using a 100kw or greater charger. This was speculated as happening due to the initial heat buildup when using the 100kw charger caused the charger to back off early in the charging and the maximum charging rate being less than 40kw after a short time. The 40kw charger did not back off until near the very end of the charge. If you are planning on charging to near 100% it would appear that the smaller charger is faster. I don't remember the car model or where the test was done!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
Among the many cautions and warnings in the manual is one against using an extension cord. However I see EVs plugged in with extension cords quite regularly.

Some of the vacation cottages we go to do have outdoor sockets, but sometimes I'd have to park on the grass in order to get close enough.

I have a Mastercraft (Canadian Tire) contractor-grade power bar which has 15-gauge cable, 1.8 meters, and surge protection.

Does anyone know if there is any serious drawback to using something like this?
I think 15 gauge is too light. I would suggest an RV extension cord as they are 10 gauge, so significantly heavier (the lower the gauge the thicker it is). I have attached a link of an RV cord that has standard 15a outlets on the ther end.


if you are at a cottage and don’t have access to an RV plug then add this adapter:


A standard extension cord in 10 gauge is available at Home Depot here:


Timbo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I think 15 gauge is too light. I would suggest an RV extension cord as they are 10 gauge, so significantly heavier (the lower the gauge the thicker it is). I have attached a link of an RV cord that has standard 15a outlets on the ther end.


if you are at a cottage and don’t have access to an RV plug then add this adapter:


A standard extension cord in 10 gauge is available at Home Depot here:


Timbo
Thank you. This really helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Thank you. This really helps.
today I gave up ontrying to find a 10-gauge cord in any local outlet (Canadian tire, Home Depot, RONA etc).

I went to the compnay that has done all my home electrical work for the past 20 years, Orser Technical in Orillia, and pitched the problem to their front-desk store manager, Tony Rutledge. He offered to make one for me, and two hours later it was ready.

My car is charging from it now in my driveway (this is a test) and everything seems to be fine.

So far, so good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Any chance JLR could give us a SOTA update to further increase max DCFC charging rates? Seems like every new EV coming out can charge near 150kw. I don't think they all have 800V batteries (the new Koreans and Porsche/Audi do).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Just back from dealer checking on repair ETA for my 2019 HSE (Level 3 charging issues grrrr....). Spoke to knowledgeable shop manager/iPace driver/iPace tech who shared a few interesting tidbits:

1) TL;DR US Level 1 chargers are called Level 2 by JLR and iPace techs.
Per @sciencegeek it appears that the smaller J-1772 charger that ships with the iPace and plugs into a 110V outlet here in the US (ergo, what we Yanks would assume is a "Level 1" charger), is actually deemed a "Level 2 charger" by JLR, since the UK standard mains power is 240V and in the UK this standard charger is therefore delivering 240v. Thus, a US "home charger" fitted with the lighter "pistol" with 5 pins (typically wired as 220v single phase), e.g. Chargepoint, JuiceBox, etc. is deemed a "Level 2 charger" as well, and JLR refers to Level 3 chargers as those that use the full CCS bigger pistol with seven pins and the heavier cable.

2) after experiencing many months of repeated Level 3 charging failures on Chargepoint DC Fast chargers, 50K AC chargers, EVGo and EA DC fast chargers (sometimes requiring multiple phone calls on rainy nights in deserted parking lots to re-set, and re-set, and re-set the charger), the tech believes the culprit may be that the standard 12v battery may not have had sufficient amp/hour reserves.

Apparently the 12V battery is used to power what I'd call a "relay" to connect the high-voltage batteries to the chargeport's charging harness. His theory is that if the 12V battery charge is lower than 12v (due to heavy use of wipers, radio, A/C or a too-small batttery), the relay cannot be powered and so the charging cycle does not initiate, or quickly fails. Tech recommends leaving the car ON while engaging an L3 charging event, as apparently the 12V battery is re-charged by the high-voltage battery bank when the car is on, and will therefore enable the relay. He also recommends charging IMMEDIATELY upon stopping, rather that sitting in iPace that's switched off with lights, A/C/heat, radio, etc. drawing power.

Tech is replacing the 12V battery with a higher amp/hour ("cold cranking capacity") battery and has updated the BECM. Fingers crossed.....
Did replacing the battery fix your problem? Which 12v battery is used to power the relay? The smaller AGM one? The reason I am asking is that I too had trouble to start DC charging at two different JR dealers, shortly after that, my AGM battery needs to be replaced. I always worried about if frequent DC charging will short the main battery life and now wondering if it will short the life of 12v batteries.
You also mentioned that the charger came withe the car is actually a level 1 and level 2 charger. So can we plug it into a 240v outlet to double the level 1 charge speed?
 

·
Premium Member
19 I-pace HSE Polaris/Fuji white with most options and a lot of accessories
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
The battery mentioned in that post is the larger flooded battery. However, comments by the tech do not agree with Jaguar doc. The car probably needed the software update more than a battery.

A battery too weak to power a relay would be too weak to unlock the doors or light up the instrument cluster.

The BCM/GWM, BCCM, BECM, and DC/DC converter are all involved. They all need to be at current software levels.

The small AGM battery powers the brake booster, front EPIC and parking pawl. It is not involved in charging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
The battery mentioned in that post is the larger flooded battery. However, comments by the tech do not agree with Jaguar doc. The car probably needed the software update more than a battery.

A battery too weak to power a relay would be too weak to unlock the doors or light up the instrument cluster.

The BCM/GWM, BCCM, BECM, and DC/DC converter are all involved. They all need to be at current software levels.

The small AGM battery powers the brake booster, front EPIC and parking pawl. It is not involved in charging.
Thanks so much!

Can you also comment on my other question:

"You also mentioned that the charger came with the car is actually a level 1 and level 2 charger. So can we plug it into a 240v outlet to double the level 1 charge speed?"

If it is the same one as provided in UK, then it should work.
Thanks again.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top