Charging discrepancies

7349 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by jaysellshm, Dec 4, 2018

jaysellshm

Discussion Starter · Dec 3, 2018

Has anyone had fluctuations in charging totals? When my I-Pace was delivered to me a couple of days ago it showed a 275 mile range. When I took it to the service center a day later, they delivered it back to me with a 265 mile range. For two days now, while charging it at home on my Level 2 ChargePointe charger, I am only able to achieve approximately a 235 mile range. I'm wondering how the dealership was able to achieve such a high range compared to my home charger? With my prior Tesla I was able to adjust the charging range but I don't see that is possible with this car. Any thoughts? Thanks!

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Dantrium

· #2 · Dec 3, 2018

jaysellshm said:
Has anyone had fluctuations in charging totals? When my I-Pace was delivered to me a couple of days ago it showed a 275 mile range. When I took it to the service center a day later, they delivered it back to me with a 265 mile range. For two days now, while charging it at home on my Level 2 ChargePointe charger, I am only able to achieve approximately a 235 mile range. I'm wondering how the dealership was able to achieve such a high range compared to my home charger? With my prior Tesla I was able to adjust the charging range but I don't see that is possible with this car. Any thoughts? Thanks!

The 'range' is a guestimate the car makes based on a bunch of factors, of which some include outside temp, past 'driving style', recent trips, etc. If you consider all the variables that seem to impact consumption, that range guessometer at parking is kinda worthless. I mean if all I have done for the past month is to putter around town in warm, sunny weather, but then decide to take a road trip during a snowstorm, the car will have no idea how to predict the range until I start driving.

For my car, every morning it optimistically believes it will get to drive 180+ miles because it is sitting in a 65 F garage. Within a minute of 2 of driving and it realizes it is 10 F out, not 65 F out, it subtracts about 30-40 miles from my range...

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McRat

· #3 · Dec 3, 2018 (Edited)

The Tesla meter is not a learning algorithm. It simply takes battery voltage and creates a number from it regardless of how or where you drive. It is about where cars were in 2000.
Newer cars, like the i-Pace, use a learning range meter. It will look at how you have been driving, the temperature, the HVAC setting, and IIRC even the topography (hills) to estimate range.

The i-Pace is 'predictive'. It tries to estimate how far you can go this trip. The Tesla is not, it's a gas gauge needle. A full tank will show the same range no matter what. It's a marketing issue. Do you want to show people a nice number, or do you want to give them an accurate range? But it can work against you. My i-Pace is still showing over 250 miles on the range. My blue Volt is reading 59 miles, not 53. If an i-Pace were a Tesla it would be showing 234 miles every time you charge it 100%.

This will be the second great application for predictive range estimation. The first one was for towing. Your truck would quickly guess based on the load what your REAL range would be, which can be 50% of normal. It's very easy to run out fuel towing.

Ditto for EVs. I want to know when my range is going to be bad ASAP. I do not want an optimistic or pessimistic number. I want a realistic one. If my Volts will go 59 miles the way I drive, then that's what number I want on the dash. If my i-Pace will probably only go 160 miles today, I want to know ASAP. Don't tell me 234 miles to make the Sales Dept happy.

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NerdUno

· #4 · Dec 3, 2018

Just to confirm McRat's findings. Believe it or not, it got cold in South Carolina last week. After a day of driving around, the I-Pace was showing a "full" range of 211 miles. On a subsequent 60-mile trip to Charleston and return, the mileage available was showing 90 miles when we got back. That was one mile off the original estimate. And that's really what you want to know when you step into your car rather than some inflated range estimate that may leave you stranded somewhere with no remaining battery.

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phil

· #5 · Dec 3, 2018

I don't want a range prediction. I just want to know what % of capacity remains in my battery.

Gas gauges have worked well for a century, for billions of drivers. I see no reason to change the presentation of fuel level, just because the type of fuel is different. If they want to add a range estimate, that's ok - I'll ignore it, just as I do in my Lexus.

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WattAJag

· #6 · Dec 3, 2018

You always have the % of charge number on the MyEV screen and on your phone.

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WattAJag

· #7 · Dec 3, 2018

You always have the % of charge number on the MyEV screen and on your phone. But, if you drove downhill somewhere yesterday on a warmer day, and it shows you with 55% left - I wouldn't bank on making it home.

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phil

· #8 · Dec 3, 2018 (Edited)

WattAJag said:
You always have the % of charge number on the MyEV screen and on your phone. But, if you drove downhill somewhere yesterday on a warmer day, and it shows you with 55% left - I wouldn't bank on making it home.

I have over 40 years' experience making sure I have enough fuel to keep my car going.

My judgment is superior to the I-Pace's dumb projection. I know that I need to be driving uphill today, the car does not. Someday, cars may be smarter than I am, but that day is not today.

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McRat

· #9 · Dec 3, 2018

phil said:
I don't want a range prediction. I just want to know what % of capacity remains in my battery.

Gas gauges have worked well for a century, for billions of drivers. I see no reason to change the presentation of fuel level, just because the type of fuel is different. If they want to add a range estimate, that's ok - I'll ignore it, just as I do in my Lexus.

The i-Pace will tell you percentage of battery left. But it will also do predictive range at the same time.

ie - If you always drive the same route and get 200-210 miles of true range, it will show your RANGE at 205 miles. So when you've driven about 100 miles, the battery will say 50%.
If you always drive the same route and get 240-260 miles of true range, it will show RANGE at 250 miles. So when you've driven 125 miles, the battery will say 50%.

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McRat

· #10 · Dec 3, 2018

phil said:
I have over 40 years' experience making sure I have enough fuel to keep my car going.

My judgment is superior to the I-Pace's dumb projection. I know that I need to be driving uphill today, the car does not. Someday, cars may be smarter than I am, but that day is not today.

Why have a gauge at all? I used a reserve tank on VW bugs and motorcycles for 45 years. Gauges are for chickens. >

Look in the tank with a flashlight. If the batteries aren't dead. Don't use a match though.

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Dantrium

· #11 · Dec 3, 2018

McRat said:
phil said:

I don't want a range prediction. I just want to know what % of capacity remains in my battery.

Gas gauges have worked well for a century, for billions of drivers. I see no reason to change the presentation of fuel level, just because the type of fuel is different. If they want to add a range estimate, that's ok - I'll ignore it, just as I do in my Lexus.

Click to expand...

The i-Pace will tell you percentage of battery left. But it will also do predictive range at the same time.

ie - If you always drive the same route and get 200-210 miles of true range, it will show your RANGE at 205 miles. So when you've driven about 100 miles, the battery will say 50%.
If you always drive the same route and get 240-260 miles of true range, it will show RANGE at 250 miles. So when you've driven 125 miles, the battery will say 50%.

I’m not sure what all goes into the algorithm to do a prediction, but so far, with almost 1400 miles on the car the first 50% of the battery is consistently overly optimistic for total range. Once I’m am below 50% it seems more accurate.

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sciencegeek

· #12 · Dec 3, 2018

McRat said:
Why have a gauge at all? I used a reserve tank on VW bugs and motorcycles for 45 years. Gauges are for chickens. >

Look in the tank with a flashlight. If the batteries aren't dead. Don't use a match though.

:grin2: >

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McRat

· #13 · Dec 3, 2018

Dantrium said:
I’m not sure what all goes into the algorithm to do a prediction, but so far, with almost 1400 miles on the car the first 50% of the battery is consistently overly optimistic for total range. Once I’m am below 50% it seems more accurate.

It's learning while you drive. Like the fuel injection system on a modern car or an automatic transmission. As you drive, it starts to calculate and adjust. How quickly it does this is programmed by automotive software engineers.

Example: I drive a 58.4 mile loop in a 53 EPA mile car. Hundreds of times. There is 50'-1200' of elevation changes, and canyon winds. I arrive at the customer's site (50' ASL), and my range will say I have 45 miles left. Obviously that is only correct if I continue to go downhill with a slight tailwind.
By the time I get back, I have about 3-7 miles left after having climbed past the 1200' peak.

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jaysellshm

Discussion Starter · #14 · Dec 4, 2018

What's interesting is that the dealership just texted me and said that the discrepancy is because they use a fast charger. Huh??? I've never heard of that. I'm not an electrician but why would the amperage affect the charging capacity? My Model S would charge the same amount whether I used a super charging station, charging with 30 amps, or charging with 20 amps. The growing pains of a car company that knows nothing about electric cars. When I was purchasing the car I knew more about electric cars than they did.....

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