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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
@sciencegeek that's likely what i'll do. i understand from reading prior threads that there's a theory that, after a period of inactivity, a few discharge/charge cycles could improve capacity. i do have a bit of buyback arbitrage i have to consider here though -- my state's lemon law gives the manufacturer 30 days upon my notice to repair any material issues cited in the notice. i am significantly into that period, and if i collect the car and agree with the dealer that it's "fixed" the clock on a future buyback would reset. it's obviously true that if the state of health drops below 70% i am entitled to a warranty claim to have modules replaced, but i have to weigh the nuissance now of pushing forward with a buyback vs. the possible nuissance later of another long period out of service. unfortunately i don't feel either is an optimal choice!
 

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Oh I missed that. It sounds like you're in exactly the same boat I was in. I would go the buyback route. You know about this thread right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Oh I missed that. It sounds like you're in exactly the same boat I was in. I would go the buyback route. You know about this thread right?
yes, aware of the buyback thread. i suspect jlr corporate is going to make the process really difficult. it's been virtually impossible to interact productively with them, or even get certified mail delivered to the address in mahwah, nj.
 

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Regular reader on this forum, but have never had a good reason to wade in till now. Unfortunately it is due to a much-feared battery issue. I purchased my 2020 I-Pace in December and enjoyed 5,000 problem free miles until the "Battery fault detected" message popped up and the go pedal stopped functioning. In drive, pushing the pedal makes a groaning or grinding sound. In reverse, it sounds like the motors are spinning at high RPMs. Otherwise the infotainment, climate, etc. are operating normally. Battery had a full charge. Thankfully I was on a residential street in my brother's neighborhood; not so thankfully, I was 200 miles from home. Wednesday will mark two weeks since this happened.

JLR roadside assistance had it towed to the local dealer in Monmouth County, NJ, who bluntly said they were so busy they had no idea when they could look at it. (And no, they couldn't spare a loaner.) It took some work, but JLR agreed to have it towed to my home dealer in MD at their expense, a process which took several days. The dealer has been candid that they don't know what's wrong with it or how to fix it. A TA case was opened with corporate on Friday, and today's update was that detailed "vial" (sp?) codes had been downloaded from the car and sent to JLR for further interpretation.

I've started tossing the B-word around with the dealer, not least due to some of the stories reported by other posters on this board, but they are insisting there's no reason to panic yet. I'll keep you all posted so others can hopefully learn from my experience.

View attachment 4338
I just looked this forum up after retrieving my IPace from the dealer, where it has been since Sunday. At the start of a long day out, the car showed a warning about brake pedal feel and I thought, “Well, I’ll call in on that when I have cell service” because we were driving on the two-lane Coast Highway. As we came up to a construction stopping point, my brakes felt as though all power support was gone and I almost ran into the rear of the car ahead of me. Then, the car would not start. Well, it would start and then shut itself down. Two hours later, when the tow truck arrived, the car had to be dragged onto the truck - no way to engage neutral.

The upshot? One of the two batteries had failed and several modules had to be replaced.

I have had the car 10 months.

And will it happen again?
“Maybe” was the answer.

Definitely not happy.
 

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So why can't the I-Pace show a "Battery Fault" when there actually is a bad battery?
I know I have a bad battery that is getting worse by the day, but the car is not smart enough to give
any indication. And by the way, I have a battery cell on order by a dealer, and it will take months for a
replacement part. The car should be past 30 days as "bad", but ends up it is drive able but only for short distances.
So anyone know if one bad cell can cause the entire battery SOC to not take more that a 30% charge before stopping?
Maybe the battery will only charge to the lowest common denominator, or in my case 1 bad cell.

Note: kWh charge to 100% for each session since last year per WattCatt.
5452
 

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So why can't the I-Pace show a "Battery Fault" when there actually is a bad battery?
I know I have a bad battery that is getting worse by the day, but the car is not smart enough to give
any indication. And by the way, I have a battery cell on order by a dealer, and it will take months for a
replacement part. The car should be past 30 days as "bad", but ends up it is drive able but only for short distances.
So anyone know if one bad cell can cause the entire battery SOC to not take more that a 30% charge before stopping?
Maybe the battery will only charge to the lowest common denominator, or in my case 1 bad cell.

Note: kWh charge to 100% for each session since last year per WattCatt.
View attachment 5452
That is an odd result...
It is not strange for WattCat to show a gradual decline in net capacity, even if in reality there is likely sudden drop if a cell goes bad.
In EVs, there is no simple way to measure net capacity. The BMS can only estimate, based on history, parameters, cell voltage and it's reaction to various loads. It needs to experience the actual discharge to actually <know>.

The I-Pace HV battery consists of 432 cells, arranged in 4 independent strings of 108. If one cell goes bad, the entire string becomes useless and you loose 25% capacity.
This loss will only reveal itself gradually, as the BMS (and thus WattCat) learns that it's measured available capacity is lower than what it expects.

If you want clarity, you should run the battery down to a very low SoC. That makes the BMS face up to reality.

Now, your report of 25kWh at 100% SoC is weird. It would imply that you have faulty cells simultaneously in 3 of the 4 strings... It also means the capacity would drop a little more, to around 20kWh... Never heard of anything like that. I suppose that something else is up, like a failure in the BMS itself.

Do you have a way of measuring added kWh and correlating this to the difference in SoC?
Likewise, do you have a way to run down the battery under conditions you know, recording the kWh discharged?
 

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Unfortunately we have not found , yet, where to look for data about individual 432 cells (not sure if it is available) on OBD2 port, nor the 36 groups of 12 cell, nor the 4 lines of 108 cell. We only have access to the global Voltage, min and max cell voltage, real SOC, SOH, ... If you buy an OBD2 reader (ie. https://www.amazon.com/Vgate-Scanner-Interface-Adapter-Diagnostics/dp/B014SNEWIU/) you can have access to those value yourself.
 

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I have run the car down and recharged a number of times. Every time I charge the total delivered kWh drops.
My home Charge point has memory of every charge performed along with kWh delivered.
My total mileage available is probably less than 50 at full charge.
Mind you, the instrument gauge still reads 201 miles, and 95% upon stopping charging. (It is useless and makes you think everything is just fine).
If I do another deep discharge, I might run out on the road. Would have to finish discharge with load eg heater in garage.
The last dealer tested the state of health reported 1 cell of 84%, all others 91% or greater. (Jan. this year)
Only 1 of the dealers in the state have a qualified tech to even work on the battery.
These dealers don't want to deal with it is my feeling. The excuse is they have no qualified tech. Just getting ping pong treatment.
 

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I have run the car down and recharged a number of times. Every time I charge the total delivered kWh drops.
My home Charge point has memory of every charge performed along with kWh delivered.
My total mileage available is probably less than 50 at full charge.
Mind you, the instrument gauge still reads 201 miles, and 95% upon stopping charging. (It is useless and makes you think everything is just fine).
If I do another deep discharge, I might run out on the road. Would have to finish discharge with load eg heater in garage.
The last dealer tested the state of health reported 1 cell of 84%, all others 91% or greater. (Jan. this year)
Only 1 of the dealers in the state have a qualified tech to even work on the battery.
These dealers don't want to deal with it is my feeling. The excuse is they have no qualified tech. Just getting ping pong treatment.
Well, that sounds like a unique case... And not "unique" in a nice way :confused:
One cell at 84%, and the others "above 91%"... That makes me assume that there is a lot of variety between the others as well. 91% is poor anyway if you did not exceptionally abuse your car. (Well, it is poor even if you did).

In a less unique case, the SoH of the different cells are typically identical, or at least very close together.
The result of such differences in SoH will be that voltage differences between different cells in each string will be very high, making it nigh on impossible for the BMS to discharge reasonably. There's your problem.
Now, it could be that you are extremely unlucky and have gathered so many bad cells; but my hunch is that something else is wrong. BMS, for instance, or wiring...

If dealers don't help out, you need to escalate. Find a JLR customer rep, ideally in USA, in UK if need be. Document discharge & charge results, dealer efforts etc. It is clear from your experience that your real SoH today is far below 70%, so JLR must take action.
 

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The last dealer tested the state of health reported 1 cell of 84%, all others 91% or greater. (Jan. this year)
Only 1 of the dealers in the state have a qualified tech to even work on the battery.
These dealers don't want to deal with it is my feeling. The excuse is they have no qualified tech. Just getting ping pong treatment.
Could you share this report with me (send a PM) ? I am courious to know if JLR provide a detailed report for each 432 pouches or only on the 36 cells ?
I found a PID (4885) on the BECM with plenty of 0x64, 0x63 and 0x62, which could be interpreted as 100%, 99%, 98%,... so those could be individual SOH, but I don't have 432 of them. Only a serie a 27....
That would be nice to see an official battery report from JLR.
 

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I have run the car down and recharged a number of times. Every time I charge the total delivered kWh drops.
My home Charge point has memory of every charge performed along with kWh delivered.
My total mileage available is probably less than 50 at full charge.
Mind you, the instrument gauge still reads 201 miles, and 95% upon stopping charging. (It is useless and makes you think everything is just fine).
If I do another deep discharge, I might run out on the road. Would have to finish discharge with load eg heater in garage.
The last dealer tested the state of health reported 1 cell of 84%, all others 91% or greater. (Jan. this year)
Only 1 of the dealers in the state have a qualified tech to even work on the battery.
These dealers don't want to deal with it is my feeling. The excuse is they have no qualified tech. Just getting ping pong treatment.
Out of curiosity I looked back over your past posts and noted you had a problem with your AC late last Summer. I know the battery is liquid cooled, but do we know if the "liquid" is passively cooled by heat exchange or is actively cooled through the AC unit?
It might be something that JLR could follow up on and explain a sudden impairment of multiple cells.
 

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19 I-pace HSE Polaris/Fuji white with most options and a lot of accessories
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Traction battery coolant is the typical JLR coolant one finds in the radiator used for cabin heating and cooling an ICE. The car does have a radiator with a fan like an ICE car.
In fact the owner's manual advises us to check the level weekly.

 

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Could you share this report with me (send a PM) ? I am courious to know if JLR provide a detailed report for each 432 pouches or only on the 36 cells ?
I found a PID (4885) on the BECM with plenty of 0x64, 0x63 and 0x62, which could be interpreted as 100%, 99%, 98%,... so those could be individual SOH, but I don't have 432 of them. Only a serie a 27....
That would be nice to see an official battery report from JLR.
This is the readout for 36 cells done back in January for the 36 cells.
I don't think the tech new a lot when he performed this.
The car has been to a 2nd dealer since, I was not given that particular data though.
 

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Regular reader on this forum, but have never had a good reason to wade in till now. Unfortunately it is due to a much-feared battery issue. I purchased my 2020 I-Pace in December and enjoyed 5,000 problem free miles until the "Battery fault detected" message popped up and the go pedal stopped functioning. In drive, pushing the pedal makes a groaning or grinding sound. In reverse, it sounds like the motors are spinning at high RPMs. Otherwise the infotainment, climate, etc. are operating normally. Battery had a full charge. Thankfully I was on a residential street in my brother's neighborhood; not so thankfully, I was 200 miles from home. Wednesday will mark two weeks since this happened.

JLR roadside assistance had it towed to the local dealer in Monmouth County, NJ, who bluntly said they were so busy they had no idea when they could look at it. (And no, they couldn't spare a loaner.) It took some work, but JLR agreed to have it towed to my home dealer in MD at their expense, a process which took several days. The dealer has been candid that they don't know what's wrong with it or how to fix it. A TA case was opened with corporate on Friday, and today's update was that detailed "vial" (sp?) codes had been downloaded from the car and sent to JLR for further interpretation.

I've started tossing the B-word around with the dealer, not least due to some of the stories reported by other posters on this board, but they are insisting there's no reason to panic yet. I'll keep you all posted so others can hopefully learn from my experience.

View attachment 4338

This happened to me at 54k and it was both the small batteries in my 2019- after a long and much research I now keep jumper cables : )- We shouldn't have to do this but its a common issue along ALL EV's from my understanding.

Hope you figured yours out : )
 

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My dealer has a sign that says $169 an hour for service(I think this is right). A friendly service writer can schedule it during a visit for something else and you may get a deal better than the minimum charge. Once they start the test the technician is not involved with the test any more until the test is done. I had my battery tested with 12 miles on it, since it was fully charged. I would expect that a fully charged battery may show outliers in the pack better than a partially charged battery would. I would expect many higher unmeaningful cell differences, if the battery was run down when tested.
 
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