[bguidizi]

Wanted to pose to those that have driven with the adaptive cruise on.

I have been consulting with a friend of mine that has a Model X for 18 months and we have much in common with the adaptive cruise. If we set the follow distance to 4 bars for me, max for him but not sure of the graphiic on the Tesla we both have people cut in front of us causing us to be pushed farther back.

I have noticed that the car despite my following distance setting will wait to brake longer than I would and then brakes more aggressively. Quite honestly is scares the crap out of my wife. I was comparing notes with my fellow Tesla owner and he said it does the same thing with him. He said that after 18th months that sometimes he gets concerned that the car will actually start to stop in-time and he takes over to play it safe. I have had similar experience.

I noticed that the Adaptive cruise icons for the following distance and lane keep assist are the same on the IPace and the 2019 Sante Fe we just picked up to replace our 2003 Expedition. Made me think the technology is licensed from the same company. Based on the performance similarities of my Tesla driving friend, could it be Tesla? Tesla did make many EV patents available. IDK if vehicle control such as adaptive cruise and emergency braking are some patents they owned and made available. Does anyone know the answer to that? And what is your experience with stopping with adaptive cruise. Has anyone used cruise to come upon a vehicle stopped at a light and felt as though the IPace would not stop in time but just trusted the tech?

 

[sciencegeek]

Great thread.

[Edit: this refers mostly to Steering assist but because it functions in conjunction with adaptive cruise control I reposted it here]

I'm cross-posting this because it's relevant:

On straightaways and very gentle curves with clear lane markings it's good enough that you can temporarily take your hands off the wheel. If the curves get tighter it wobbles but it does a good enough job that all you have to do is help it a bit by actively steering to stay in the middle of the lane and not drift too much.

In more challenging situations it quits and picks back up fairly often. But that's ok because I have hands on wheel and paying attention. Given that the system is has its (documented) limitations, the silent quitting and picking back up is a feature, not a bug. I wouldn't want it to dingdingding all the time, and even in these situations it performs well enough that it makes for much more relaxed driving. Combined with the adaptive cruise control it's significantly stress-reducing.

 

[sciencegeek]

And what is your experience with stopping with adaptive cruise. Has anyone used cruise to come upon a vehicle stopped at a light and felt as though the IPace would not stop in time but just trusted the tech?

I just did a bunch of these in the past couple of days. You have to pay attention but it stops in time and not too abruptly IMO. Then you give it a little push with the gas pedal and off it goes again. It's not perfect but I'm not freaked out by its behavior. Just today I drove home from a friend's place (10 miles) and the vast majority, including stop signs and red lights AA was working as advertised.

 

[WattAJag]

I like using the Adaptive Cruise in city driving. But, one thing I find is that it waits to start slowing down much later than I would if I was in control. It brakes harder/later than I want to. To help combat this, I actually used the following distance buttons more. For normal city driving, following distance 2 is "normal" for where I live. But, when I see a red light in the near distance, I change it up to level 4 - so that my car starts slowing sooner. Then, when we're moving again, I go back to follow level 2.

 

[Time2Roll]

Adaptive cruise (AC) is far from perfect. Human driver can easily do better as long as you are paying attention.

If following a vehicle to a stop AC seems fine but not as smooth as it could be. If approaching a stopped vehicle I do not trust it to stop in a reasonable manor. I believe this is a bit normal for AC to mostly ignore stopped objects and the emergency braking comes into play.

AC seems to use the brakes more than needed. Also seems to limit regeneration braking so I expect some or a lot of efficiency loss. Needs to just coast a bit more to extend the distance. Following distance seems to shorten up without expected slowing and then finally needs to use the brakes too much. I honestly do not mind going slower and letting vehicles cut in.

I see AC in the I-Pace much better at the open road than fighting urban traffic. Would be interesting to have the top engineer for a ride along to understand what the heck they are thinking.

 

[sciencegeek]

It's possible that our cars behave differently because things are still buggy.

In my case today I used ACC plus Steering assist for 80% of freeway driving, ranging between 55 and 80 mph, for about 100 miles (so a good sample). Against the wind much of the time (>50%) ... 200 mile range (i.e., 41 kWh/mile average). No net elevation delta. If it uses more energy it's not much. I had multiple instances of cars cutting in front, slowdowns, and stopsigns/lights in town. Not a problem.

 

[jsimon7777]

I think AC brakes too hard when somebody cuts in front of me, but that's probably a good thing. I usually set it to three bars to limit such cuts, and I find that it keeps a wonderfully accurate following distance through many speeds. As for who they licensed from, I dunno. Lots of options there.

 

[bguidizi]

One thing to add.
I noticed a slow down conservative reaction to a vehicle exiting the road to the right when ACC is on. It slows more than necessary and slow to get back up to speed. Not what was expected, especially how it brakes aggressively.
Glad to hear your experiences. I would prefer it regen to slow down rather than brake so aggressively as it is out of my normal comfort mode for slowing/braking and I don't think I am that conservative. Would like to take advantage of the regen where possible. It would be nice if this were a setting in ACC.

Any thoughts if this is licensed from Tesla?

 

[Timbo]

I have used the Adaptive Cruise and am very impressed. When using the steering assist only, the car seems to wander and vibrate more as it sort of ping pongs between the lines. When you activate the Adaptive Cruise, things seem to suddenly tighten up and the car tracks straight as an arrow. It handles gentle curves very well and only seems to lose it’s tracking one the lane lines are covered in snow or ice. I had the family in the car and freaked them out by activating the cruise then turning right around in my seat to start a conversation for a few seconds which caused them to start screaming at me to turn around. .

Before you start giving me heck, the passenger up front was in on the joke and my inattention was for only a few seconds. just long enough to install terror.

Anyhow, we were driving along a country road with the car in AC and I saw a tractor ahead pull out into the road. I said to the family ‘let’s see how this thing responds’ and watched it’s behaviour. It saw the tractor in plenty of time and slowed the Jag briskly, but not in a manner that induced panic and dropped to 15 km/h behind the tractor. It behaved perfectly. I was very impressed.

This is my first vehicle with this technology and it really reduces stress on the highway as previously I was constantly adjusting the cruise and ‘defending’ my lane from people trying to cut in front of me.

Very cool tech. I wonder how advanced it is for future enhancements? I think Tesla has significantly more sensors etc to allow for independent navigation.

 

[phil]

I like using the Adaptive Cruise in city driving. But, one thing I find is that it waits to start slowing down much later than I would if I was in control. It brakes harder/later than I want to. To help combat this, I actually used the following distance buttons more. For normal city driving, following distance 2 is "normal" for where I live. But, when I see a red light in the near distance, I change it up to level 4 - so that my car starts slowing sooner. Then, when we're moving again, I go back to follow level 2.

Wouldn't it be easier to just brake and accelerate yourself, using the gas and brake pedals rather than ACC? No 'combat' required!

 

[NerdUno]

Great thread.

[Edit: this refers mostly to Steering assist but because it functions in conjunction with adaptive cruise control I reposted it here]

I'm cross-posting this because it's relevant:

On straightaways and very gentle curves with clear lane markings it's good enough that you can temporarily take your hands off the wheel. If the curves get tighter it wobbles but it does a good enough job that all you have to do is help it a bit by actively steering to stay in the middle of the lane and not drift too much.

In more challenging situations it quits and picks back up fairly often. But that's ok because I have hands on wheel and paying attention. Given that the system is has its (documented) limitations, the silent quitting and picking back up is a feature, not a bug. I wouldn't want it to dingdingding all the time, and even in these situations it performs well enough that it makes for much more relaxed driving. Combined with the adaptive cruise control it's significantly stress-reducing.

We've now owned four vehicles with Lane Keeping Assist (a.k.a. AutoPilot): Tesla AP2, Nissan Rogue, I-Pace, and Range Rover. In terms of steering reliability, I would rate them in the order I've listed them. Both Tesla and the Rogue have distinctive chimes when LKA turns on or off. It is NOT distracting, but it is extremely helpful once you get used to it. The Rogue is very close to Tesla in terms of reliability. There are many well-marked roads where it rarely, if ever, turns off on its own. I actually prefer the Nissan implementation over the Tesla design because Nissan lets you actually steer while LKA is activated. With Tesla, AutoPilot is either on (and the Tesla steers) or off (and you can steer). But with Tesla, you cannot steer while AutoPilot is activated without actually twisting the steering wheel sufficiently to deactivate AutoPilot.

The I-Pace and Range Rover simply turn LKA on and off without notice, and IMHO it's dangerous because you never know whether the car is in control or you are. I do understand why JLA doesn't notify you, and the reason is because it happens so frequently compared to the Tesla and Rogue. Having said that, the I-Pace is considerably better than the Range Rover which is next to worthless and does little more than bounce your car off the lane markers when it drifts into one which is not unlike what we saw with our Escalade (lane departure alerts) three years ago. But it's really not self-driving in any sense of the word.

 

[[email protected]]

Compared to the Tesla Model S the I-Pace "waits" too long to start breaking. On the Tesla it definitely stated breaking early but it seems like the I-pace waits and it scares the crap out of me

 

[Joshuableu]

My experience with Adaptive cruise with LKA has been hit and miss.
Setting the scene. In Arizona, perfectly smooth motorways, perfect lane markings, near zero elevation change, no rain.
Set Adaptive Cruise with LKA at 79 mph (yes normal speed for motorways here), it handles straightaways and extremely gentle curves but on a sweeping curve it completely misses the outer lane line, drives over it and I get a red triangle in the driver instrument cluster says "Driver Intervention." I can reproduce this over and over again at the same stretch of highway. Since LKA has no audible warning when it deactivates it makes the use of LKA very dangerous. The dealer agrees with me but accordingly JLR tells them this is intended use. Disappointing.

 

[sciencegeek]

My experience with Adaptive cruise with LKA has been hit and miss.
Setting the scene. In Arizona, perfectly smooth motorways, perfect lane markings, near zero elevation change, no rain.
Set Adaptive Cruise with LKA at 79 mph (yes normal speed for motorways here), it handles straightaways and extremely gentle curves but on a sweeping curve it completely misses the outer lane line, drives over it and I get a red triangle in the driver instrument cluster says "Driver Intervention." I can reproduce this over and over again at the same stretch of highway. Since LKA has no audible warning when it deactivates it makes the use of LKA very dangerous. The dealer agrees with me but accordingly JLR tells them this is intended use. Disappointing.

That's exactly my experience too but I'm at peace with it because I simply help by nudging the steering ...

 

[NerdUno]

I'm assuming both JLR and Nissan are using Mobileye in some flavor. I was really surprised when the JLR experience was so much worse than driving the Nissan. Especially troubling was the lack of notice in the JLR vehicles. But I really think they turned off the notifications because LKA was so bad compared to other vehicles like the Nissan. For example, on most "borderline" roads, the Nissan might turn off LKA two or three times in the same distance that the I-Pace would disengage more than a dozen times. Obviously, when it's that frequent, the alarms would become problematic causing drivers to complain about how lousy LKA was. When you don't actually know the car is going in and out of LKA, then JLR probably thinks they fare better in the eyes of the average driver. But it's still dangerous IMHO.

 

[WattAJag]

Just a subtle "Beee-boop" when it loses one of the lane markers and a "boo-Beep" when it gets it back would be all it would take. The car should melodically "uh oh" and "okay".

 

[Time2Roll]

I keep my hands on the wheel and assume it is not working. If I get distracted it will probably set me straight.

 

[bguidizi]

We had a near miss with the adaptive cruise yesterday. I won't rely on the vehicle in front to guide the Ipace to slow in this scenario again. We were taking an exit to another street when the exit expanded from one to two lanes. The new left lane was a left arrow only turn lane. I moved to the left lane that expanded from one. I was following another vehicle with the following distance set to 3 bars. When the lane addition occurred there were two vehicles in stacked in front of me. One stayed in the original lane and one moved over to the new left lane and I followed into the new left lane behind. The only way I can describe this is as if the IPace lost tracking of the vehicle I followed into the new left lane and started to accelerate when it should have started to slow. There was no waiting to see if the IPace would react and stop in time imo. I had to brake and brake hard when the vehicle in front of me was slowing for a stop. I just about locked up the tires braking. I have no doubt that if I didn't intervene there would have been an impact. Prior to the lane addition the IPace was slowing keeping pace with the vehicle in front. This appears to be a corner case that slipped through. I would guess someone else has had to come across this scenario as it isn't that uncommon and I think would be able to be reproduced.

 

[Time2Roll]

I agree ACC does not play well with exits with curves, merging lanes, added lanes, traffic circles etc. I accept that it is just ACC not some form of assisted driving. A person needs to know the limitations.

This in addition to poor management of following distance. For example if I have been following very steady for an extended period at a fairly steady speed and I switch to a greater following distance I would expect some small but immediate reduction of speed to make the adjustment. Nothing, just seems to keep cruising. Would seem to have a very broad window of following distance. This causes more abrupt changes than needed because the distance is ignored for too long in that big window of acceptable space. I assume the computer knows the distance within a meter so I think it should be aiming for the programmed distance a bit more precisely.

 

[NerdUno]

We had a near miss with the adaptive cruise yesterday. I won't rely on the vehicle in front to guide the Ipace to slow in this scenario again. We were taking an exit to another street when the exit expanded from one to two lanes. The new left lane was a left arrow only turn lane. I moved to the left lane that expanded from one. I was following another vehicle with the following distance set to 3 bars. When the lane addition occurred there were two vehicles in stacked in front of me. One stayed in the original lane and one moved over to the new left lane and I followed into the new left lane behind. The only way I can describe this is as if the IPace lost tracking of the vehicle I followed into the new left lane and started to accelerate when it should have started to slow. There was no waiting to see if the IPace would react and stop in time imo. I had to brake and brake hard when the vehicle in front of me was slowing for a stop. I just about locked up the tires braking. I have no doubt that if I didn't intervene there would have been an impact. Prior to the lane addition the IPace was slowing keeping pace with the vehicle in front. This appears to be a corner case that slipped through. I would guess someone else has had to come across this scenario as it isn't that uncommon and I think would be able to be reproduced.

If it makes you feel any better, our Tesla AP2 vehicle did the exact same thing... many times. Lane adjustments on the pavement coupled with abrupt vehicle departures in front of you are a formula for disaster on all of the current "smart" vehicles unfortunately.