Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I think the $35K Model 3 will result in some strong incentives on the i-Pace. I suppose it will take a few months for JagUSA to see any effect, though?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,043 Posts
If there is any Tesla impact on JLR, it will be because of the $12-18k drop in price on the S and X rather than from an entry level 3.
Agreed the model 3 is not in the same catagory and I am not sure someone would look at the two and go “Model 3.” In fact by the time you take the Model 3 to AWD and a few things it hits $50K already and is still a way inferior and different car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
The new prices do mean you could get an X Performance - without Ludicrous mode for 100k now though. That's a fairly significant price drop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
TSLA got a double whammy Mar 1. A billion in bond payments, and a $4 billion market cap drop that kept them from using stock to pay the bill.

So, they have taken some fairly radical moves to fix this.

Shutting down some sales facilities.
Collecting deposits for Model 3 SRs, first cars go anyone who is still holding a reservation. The general public should see cars this summer possibly, if at all. They made a promise of a $35k 220mi EV to the reservationists, which could cause a class action if they don't deliver to those who gave money in 2016. They made no such promise when the dissolved the queue last year.
Discounting upgrades to those who didn't buy AP or FSD, which is 'free money'.
Increases in SC rates.
Lowering cost of Autopilot.
$80k entry point for the Model S, 270 mile edition.
$89k entry point for the Model X, 295 mile edition.

For a company that has said they are supply constrained, the only reason this would make sense is to get as much cash up front from purchases and upgrades as possible at the expense of profitability in the next quarter. Another logical acct'g methods is to delay deliveries.

The next logical move would be to put in some CCS locations at remote SC locations (which are not profitable) that are underutilized and charge a high price to non-Tesla models.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NerdUno and epirali

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
At this point, regardless of sales numbers, the I-Pace stands in a Class of One. It is the only "luxury" EV available so far. Which is why I have an I-Pace and not a Model S.
When kitted in a similar fashion in the US, the I-Pace is still significantly cheaper than the Model S.

The I-Pace and it's competitors, the Audi and Mercedes, will affect MS/X sales in two ways. Choices, and hesitation. Tesla played the Hesitation game very well, they thrive on it, but now, the shoe might be on the other foot.
History: An EV was being driven by the press in early 2016. It claimed that it would be $30k after rebates, and have "over 200 miles" of range. So when Tesla had their presentation, Elon said $35k and 220 miles to make folk hesitant of the new EV. These were not accounting numbers, these were a weapon against a competitor.

The irony is that the "Bolt EV" can be found for about $25k after rebates, easily goes 240 miles, and made it's production deadline. Chevrolet threw keys to a handful of reporters and told them to meet up 240 miles from the presentation location. All the Bolts made it, one with 50 miles left. Nobody else so far has done such a thing.

Now they have a minor marketing problem. Tesla and their followers have been spending a lot of time scoffing at 240 mile class stripped EVs as not having the range, and lacking free supercharging. Now they are selling exactly such vehicles themselves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
556 Posts
Don't forget that in 2019 Tesla also lost the full $7500 federal EV rebate that all other manufacturers, particularly new EV entrants JLR, Mercedes, and Audi will enjoy for some time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Yep. Kudos for Tesla for kicking-off EVs, and the Bay Area here has officially gone "a Model 3 on ever corner," which is great to see; but I really think they need to do something about their interiors to remain competitive (or perhaps most people don't mind). I picked up a $71k I-Pace, and there's nothing at Tesla I'd rather have. And SO weird, I woke up this morning to 250 miles in range. Whaaa?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
I know that Tesla is taking a minimalist design approach with their cabins, but I cant help but be unimpressed with the quality of the materials used in their vehicles, even at $35k. They've also said they plan on closing all their physical stores and doing majority of their sales online. Are people that comfortable buying a car sight unseen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
598 Posts
I doubt many are buying completely sight unseen or without bugging a friend to get behind the wheel.
I believe the customer can reject the vehicle on the spot if it has a significant build defect.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,162 Posts
I doubt many are buying completely sight unseen or without bugging a friend to get behind the wheel.
I believe the customer can reject the vehicle on the spot if it has a significant build defect.
Actually you have 7 days/1000 miles to return the car. Had JLR offered that, I wouldn’t be driving an I-Pace right now
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
I know that Tesla is taking a minimalist design approach with their cabins,.......
I'm a huge fan of modern minimalism, but not like this. I want a speedo in front of me and a knob or two for the heat/air. Other things can be on the screen.

.....Are people that comfortable buying a car sight unseen?
Not me and any return policy doesn't cut it. I'll drive one before going through all the rest of the jumping through hoops.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Oooooo - that was harsh!

With the store closings, expect Tesla sales to take a hit. I'm already seeing rumblings about the sudden inability to test drive one.

Affecting I-Pace? Not likely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
268 Posts
TSLA got a double whammy Mar 1. A billion in bond payments, and a $4 billion market cap drop that kept them from using stock to pay the bill.

So, they have taken some fairly radical moves to fix this.

Shutting down some sales facilities.
Collecting deposits for Model 3 SRs, first cars go anyone who is still holding a reservation. The general public should see cars this summer possibly, if at all. They made a promise of a $35k 220mi EV to the reservationists, which could cause a class action if they don't deliver to those who gave money in 2016. They made no such promise when the dissolved the queue last year.
Discounting upgrades to those who didn't buy AP or FSD, which is 'free money'.
Increases in SC rates.
Lowering cost of Autopilot.
$80k entry point for the Model S, 270 mile edition.
$89k entry point for the Model X, 295 mile edition.

For a company that has said they are supply constrained, the only reason this would make sense is to get as much cash up front from purchases and upgrades as possible at the expense of profitability in the next quarter. Another logical acct'g methods is to delay deliveries.

The next logical move would be to put in some CCS locations at remote SC locations (which are not profitable) that are underutilized and charge a high price to non-Tesla models.
I guess that's one way to look at it. Here's another:

- Tesla will sell lots of $37K SR+ with 240 mile range first. Why? Because while they have already ramped the new battery modules for the SR pack, it will take time to ramp up supplies of the non-premium interior. The SR+ has a de-contented premium interior so Tesla can use existing supplies for that.

- With the Model 3, Tesla made a lot of pricing moves to increase demand since they are ramping up volume, and to steer buyers to versions and options that are higher margin. Moving some Autopilot features to FSD and reducing the Autopilot price to $3K will result in a much higher take rate among buyers of the lower priced Model 3's.

- Tesla is serious about continuing to dominate the BEV market in the face of competition. For example the price drops on the P100D make it $14K-$30K less than the pricing that Porsche communicated to Alex Roy for the Taycan. Any pricing umbrella that existed with previous S/X pricing is gone. And the Model 3 Performance at $59K is at least $10K cheaper than a BMW M3 and faster to boot. Game on.

The iPace is a beautiful car. It needs to develop its own sales momentum without constant comparison to Tesla as was done at the initial launch. Personally, I'd be a lot more concerned about the low February sales, 100 days of inventory in the US, $3K-$8K discounts and 0% financing for the iPace than some price cuts and the launch [finally!] of the $35K Model 3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
I guess that's one way to look at it. Here's another:


I agree. Tesla is selling big volumes in the $40k - $60k market, and well-positioned to continue wrecking market-share of the established premium brands while expanding into the economy-plus (EV) market -- all for the reasons we love EVs (ignoring those interiors). Additionally, the competition on the horizon remains largely stuck on the horizon. Jaguar appears to have demonstrated a mostly-winning formula at the luxury/performance end. What if Jaguar could both (i) fix its software, and (ii) produce a compelling ~$40k offering at-volume . . .Say, a Kona-sized not-so-premium model?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,494 Posts
I guess that's one way to look at it. Here's another:


I agree. Tesla is selling big volumes in the $40k - $60k market, and well-positioned to continue wrecking market-share of the established premium brands while expanding into the economy-plus (EV) market -- all for the reasons we love EVs (ignoring those interiors). Additionally, the competition on the horizon remains largely stuck on the horizon. Jaguar appears to have demonstrated a mostly-winning formula at the luxury/performance end. What if Jaguar could both (i) fix its software, and (ii) produce a compelling ~$40k offering at-volume . . .Say, a Kona-sized not-so-premium model?
Unlikely Hyundai and Tesla, I'm not sure Jaguar is in a position to stuff the trunk with $100 bills to sell them. I would not be surprised if JLR breaks even or better on the I-Pace in the long run.

How many $36,200 Teslas will be made available is anybody guess. They didn't make many Model S40's. They promised they would make some, and they did. Then they stopped. They might just service the outstanding reservations from 2016, and not take future orders at that price. It's telling you cannot buy the $35k with the big battery. It SHOULD make more money selling it with more battery. But it's not available even though it fits fine. A major problem with the $36,200 M3 is the AV system and Superchargers. If they don't use either one, a lot of lost money is being generated. It's a safe bet a true AV system, board, sensors, SW development, SW maintenance, warranty, assy costs, profit, is well north of $10,000 right now. If they don't buy it, it's sold at a loss. Then a % of all Tesla sales go to Supercharger support for the legacy cars, expansion, and maintenance. Is cost is sunk too unless they use the SC network alot and are charged enough per kWh.

For Jaguar, they aren't going to survive making Camrys. I just drove a XE for a couple days, which is Jaguar's entry level ($38k) sedan. It's OK. Handles very nice. But ... I can't see them selling in quantity, at least not at the $40k spec, maybe the $60k spec perhaps. I think the I-Pace will outsell it in the global market.

An electric sport convertible coupe with luxury features and exemplary handling is probably something Jaguar could put their name on. Who is making a classy convertible electric so far? An F-Type is a sexy bitch, and electric one would be sweeter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Right. The idea, for EV success, is to jettison the ICE platform/legacy models.(I wouldn't touch a legacy Jaguar.) The Model 3 sells b/c an EV drive train on a decently handling platform beats an ICE in terms of driving dynamics/fuel-at-home convenience/ECO considerations everyday. Start by stealing 3-Series market share, then steal Accord/Camry market share . . . I hope the I-Pace is successful, awesome car . . . but it's looking to steal E or S-Series, or 5-Series market share. . . . I agree, it isn't in Model 3 territory. And yeah, an electric F-Type could be "wow." As to Mister Dave's point -- well, I'm just rooting for volume EV sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
521 Posts
Right. The idea, for EV success, is to jettison the ICE platform/legacy models.(I wouldn't touch a legacy Jaguar.) The Model 3 sells b/c an EV drive train on a decently handling platform beats an ICE in terms of driving dynamics/fuel-at-home convenience/ECO considerations everyday. Start by stealing 3-Series market share, then steal Accord/Camry market share . . . I hope the I-Pace is successful, awesome car . . . but it's looking to steal E or S-Series, or 5-Series market share. . . . I agree, it isn't in Model 3 territory. And yeah, an electric F-Type could be "wow." As to Mister Dave's point -- well, I'm just rooting for volume EV sales.
Volume EV sales will help give us more options. Options are good.

But I hesitate to talk myself into the belief that major EV market share is anything more than a wish right now. That's going to take some time, and a few tech improvements. For openers we might want to stop hauling around liquids.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the VW group comes up with. But I'm just as realistic after seeing what GM has said versus what it has done. I hope VW does (a lot) better than GM has done. The GM car I own now is fantastic, and it may be the last one I ever buy from them.
 
1 - 20 of 53 Posts
Top