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slow charging with a 7kw charger homologated by Jaguar

16K views 34 replies 19 participants last post by  dernotte 
#1 ·
since a cooling liquid level warning light popped out (apparently there was no leak, just a sensor malfunction) the charging rate overnight has fallen to 4% (3.87 kw per hour), a bit more than half the potential rate. charging the car from 0-100% can take over 24 hours. Is anyone experimenting the same issue? does anyone knows what could be the reason? the car dealer hasn't found yet what can be the issue.
thanks for your help.
 
#5 ·
240V circuit with a double breaker with the charger plugged in all the time, or hardwired? Has it half failed and working like a 120V charger? Switch off the breaker completely, wait at least 10 seconds and switch on the breaker. Do this even if the charger isn't plugged in all the time.
 
#6 ·
The fact that it co-insides with a coolant leak warning, I'd guess the car is limiting the charge rate to protect the battery. If the breaker had tripped, you'd have no current. I don't think twinned breakers (220v) can trip half-way since the switches are ganged together, otherwise, you'd lose a big part of the reason they are there.

Get the sensor fixed and I am pretty sure the charging issue will go away as well.
 
#7 ·
f the breaker had tripped, you'd have no current. I don't think twinned breakers (220v) can trip half-way since the switches are ganged together, otherwise, you'd lose a big part of the reason they are there.
Although logic and intended design says that, and I would agree with you, I have actually seen one half fail without tripping off the whole circuit. It puzzled me too. It was replaced, of course.
 
#8 ·
Thank you for teaching me a new word. Was this situation really homologated by JLR? I can't imagine that they would say to you "yeah you're using a 7kW cable but the car is designed to use only 3kW."

I am using a generic 7kW charging cable ... invariably (to my frustration) the car starts throttling the rate of charge downward after ~30 min or less. Same has happened to me on a commercial ChargePoint charger at a hotel overnight, and I was dismayed to learn that I would have to spend another two hours in the sihtty hotel room to wait for 100%, which I needed at the time. The solution is always (in my case) to unlock the car, unplug, plug back in. Then it keeps charging at 7kW. It's a bug. Your situation may be more severe, given the ominous sensor issue.
 
#9 ·
I have noticed a reduction in the AC Level charge rate at home also. (only see in ChargePoint app)
It occurs as the SOC gets higher, say 80% give or take.

So I just spoke with a tech at ChargePoint and he said this is normal.
It is the car talking with the charger to slow as it approaches full SOC.
Even if charging at L2, it will slow.:surprise:

I have not tried the unplug then restart option yet.:|

The bottom line is to charge to 80% then stop, else it's going to be a while.
It would be nice to see a graph that show charge rate vs. SOC.:nerd:
 
#10 ·
I have noticed a reduction in the AC Level charge rate at home also. (only see in ChargePoint app)
It occurs as the SOC gets higher, say 80% give or take.

So I just spoke with a tech at ChargePoint and he said this is normal.
It is the car talking with the charger to slow as it approaches full SOC.
Even if charging at L2, it will slow.[img= class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png[/img]

I have not tried the unplug then restart option yet.[img= class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_plain.png[/img]

The bottom line is to charge to 80% then stop, else it's going to be a while.
It would be nice to see a graph that show charge rate vs. SOC.[img= class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_glasses.png[/img]
I've seen the same phenomenon. My Chargepoint level 2 charger drops from 7.6 kWh to 7.0 kWh once the SoC reaches 80%. It's not a dramatic drop but it's there nonetheless. I think it's designed to reduce heat and extend the lifetime of the battery.
 
#14 ·
I’n pretty sure reduced charging rate is common for Lithium Ion batts, after they exceed approximately 80% or so SOC. It happens with my iPhone X and MacBook Pro. One of Jaguar’s earlier promo videos even mentioned that charging slows after 80%.
 
#19 ·
I occasionally use a 50kW Chargepoint charger (actually 48kW if you read its label). It's display shows a 42-45kW rate until the car gets to 85%, tapers to 30kW at 91%, 20kW at 96$ and then drops off from there. The last part takes about 20 minutes to get to 100% if left to charge to that level.

My Juicebox Pro 40 charging indicates 7.6-7.7 until 100% charged, then it drops to 0 for a very brief moment. Its behavior after that is inconsistent but usually jumps back up to 3.x-6.x and unsmoothly tapers down from there for some inconsistent period of time, usually about 1 hour.
 
#21 ·
My Juicebox Pro 40 charging indicates 7.6-7.7 until 100% charged, then it drops to 0 for a very brief moment. Its behavior after that is inconsistent but usually jumps back up to 3.x-6.x and unsmoothly tapers down from there for some inconsistent period of time, usually about 1 hour.
That part may be cell balancing done by the battery management, where it charges and drains various cell groups top make sure they are in “balance.” This is done when battery is full.
 
#23 ·
My problem is that I use the ECar Northern Ireland / Republic of Ireland Fast Charger Network, of which there are 334 in Northern Ireland of which 320 are fast chargers, 14 rapid chargers. Problem is that Jaguar have restricted the output from the normally 22kw/h fast chargers to 7 kw/h maximum charge per hour. So unless I can find a Rapid Charger you cant go far in Ireland without a long delay, and Ireland is a big place. My advice dont buy an IPace in Ireland unless you are prepared to wait for a slow recharge when away from home.
 
#26 ·
Jaguar hasn't "restricted" the output, per se. Those ECar "fast chargers" are AC EVSEs, not true chargers. The AC charger is inside the car, which in the case of the Jaguar is a 7.7 kWh charger. Very few cars have an onboard charger that can charge at more than 7.7 kWh (basically only Teslas). What you're saying is true of any EV, including a Tesla: you cannot rely on AC charging (what we in the US would refer to as Levels 1 and 2) when traveling, you must seek out a true DC charger (what you've called "rapid chargers").
 
#25 ·
Just seen this older thread, but wanted to post a snapshot of my ChargePoint charger's activity. Near constant charge rate (7.4 -7.2kW) until approximately 95% SoC, then a sharp drop off with no spikes or jumps.
Does the battery reach 100% and does the car have H264 installed? I think there's three possible answers. One, the graph is condensed into multiple hours of charging and doesn't show the fluctuations as the rate of charge slows down near 100% and appears to fall off the cliff yet is still charging. Your session lasted over 8 hours to put 65 kWh so I think this is the most likely answer. Two, Pre-H264 TopiX showed that some cars would only charge to 97% yet showed 100%. H264 was supposed to fix this. Three, the new BMU update (I think it's H280) is supposed to fix the charging problems that H264 was supposed to fix yet did not.

If the battery reaches 100% then I wouldn't worry but if you have WattCat you can verify how many kWh are in the battery.

I have ChargePoint and the graphs from my charging sessions appear exactly as yours but the drop off starts near 100%. Either way, if your battery is showing 100% then everything is okay.
 
#30 ·
Jaguar has stated that it's okay to charge to 100% unless you're using a fast charger at 100kWh or higher. That being said, there's an aftermarket app called WattCat that allows you to charge to a specific percentage. The app is awesome in many ways and is available for Android phones on Google Play. Unfortunately it's not available for IOS.

Before I had WattCat I used timed charging to reach 80%. My level 2 charger adds 8% per hour so if the battery was at 30% I would set the timed charge for 6 hours 15 minutes.

Some drivers prefer to charge to 85% - 90% so that the regen feel is the same as lower SoC and they can drive single pedal.

Jaguar recommends 100% because the battery enters into a cell balancing mode which helps battery life.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I will switch the conversation here about my charging facts:
Here is the graph from my latest charge

4159



The initial SOC was 18% and it took almost 24h to fill up to 100%. The initial charge was about 7kw but rapidly dropped to 3.5kw for almost 6 hours. The charge seems to be very slow between 8am and 2pm. The only explaination I have is that the sun was hit by the sun at that time.Then, the speed ramped up slowly when the sun was hidden by the trees.
Do you experiment the same issue when tn the temperature is quite high outside (charge at 3.5kw) ?
graph generated by : https://ipace.herokuapp.com/static/charge.html

I will add a temperature graph in the next version to correlate with temperature.
 
#33 ·
Thank for pointing me to this thread @sciencegeek . I completely skipped that one.
I have added the local temperature where the car stays in my graph, updated on an hourly basis . Next time I will be able to see the correlation.
For your graph in the other thread, how did you get the cabin temp ? manually ? I can't see any temp value in the API. No cabin temp, no battery temp. The only temp I have access to , with the API, is the ENGINE_COOLANT_TEMP, and it is always set to "-60".

Did Anyone made a test with a cabin preconditioning before charging the car ?

There is a parameter in the API :
EV_PRECONDITION_PRIORITY_SETTINGPRIORITIZE_COMFORT
the other value is PRIORITIZE_RANGE
I am wondering if this parameter could have an impact on the charge on a hot day.
 
#34 ·
I wanted to test in impact of the internal cabin temperature on charging speed. I have started the charge with external temp at 30c. I guess the inside temp was a bit above that value. After an hour I have started with the remote app the A/C with a target value = 21c. You can see the impact on the charging speed on the graph. After 30 min, the A/C stopped, and you can see that , as well in the graph. The pink line (km/h) does not seems to be reliable. It should be correlated to the SOC %/h and kw/h (cyan and purple) but I don't see spikes on the those one, when the km/h has.
I have added the external temperature on the graph (green line). The charge is not completed yet.

4170
 
#35 ·
My charge is complete now. Interesting fact: the rain started around 2:15pm and the outside temperature drop by 5 deg (from 29c to 24c), and at the same time the charge rate was better (from 2.7kw to 3.5 kw) . Note that I probe the outside temp once an hour, so the change on the graph may not align with the real timestamp. Conclusion: I can't see a correlation with the cabin temperature, but I see one with outside temp. This is not very scientific because it is only one sample. I need more.

Anyone wants to share his charging stats to compare ?

4171
 
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