Utility of the silly 110V charger - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Utility of the silly 110V charger

Ok so I've been disparaging the low-wattage charger (standard 110V outlet) that JLR supplies with the iPace. Because the rate of charging is abysmally low.

[Hold that thought]

I carpooled with a very good friend of mine on Saturday to San Francisco. He comes from Santa Cruz with a Bolt that wasn't quite fully charged. Getting back the same night would be tight. But he plugged in his silly 110V charger at our friend's place for 5 hours while we were watching terrrrrrribbble football games and he had enough to get home.

[Hold that thought]

I asked him why he hadn't charged it fully. He said "I don't have a charger that charges fast enough. I only drive a few tens of miles most days so this thing is enough for me most of the time."
That's because his charger adds roughly 40 miles per overnight session, or about 20% of battery capacity. This makes it feasible to oscillate between roughly 30% and 60% most days by just plugging it in when we get home and leaving it overnight.

[Hold that thought]

It's ideal for the battery to not be discharged fully and charged fully. See for example our thread:
https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/37...longevity.html
and the article it's based on:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries
Clearly it's advantageous for battery life if it's maintained at around 50%.

[Putting it all together]

For those of us who drive for just 20-40 miles each day, the 110V cable is ideal because it allows you to just plug in and forget. You need to plan if you're going on a longer trip so I'm still going to have my mobile cable and a 14-50 Nema outlet for faster charging .. but I bet I will have it plugged into the 110V most days. Isn't that ironic?
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 11:38 PM
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Not sure about I-Pace but LEAF has about 350 watts overhead to run the computer, cooling pump etc. during charging. Assuming same you will be using 1200 watts from the wall to get 950 watts into the battery or close to 30% loss.

Day in, day out I think I would use the timer to shorten the charge time vs an extended run on L1.

Having said that I did use my L1 charger on my LEAF back in the good ol' days when LAX allowed free prime parking and free charging for EVs. The L2 plugs were 4x over subscribed but you could park up a floor and use an extension to plug into the wall outlet next to the elevator. Easy to get a full charge when in Hawaii for a week.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 11:42 PM
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I tried it the day I brought home my I-Pace (I hadn't installed my ChargePoint Home 25 yet) and laughed after I got 4 miles in 2 hours! Now it's tucked away in the hidden part of the trunk for that rare moment I'm desperate enough to plug into a 110V 15A outlet while away.
Yes there may be a segment of the market that could plug in all weekend (60 hours) and another 12-14 hours every night and 'get by' with the 110V charger for their daily commute, but I imagine that's a pretty small group.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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I tried it the day I brought home my I-Pace (I hadn't installed my ChargePoint Home 25 yet) and laughed after I got 4 miles in 2 hours! Now it's tucked away in the hidden part of the trunk for that rare moment I'm desperate enough to plug into a 110V 15A outlet while away.
Yes there may be a segment of the market that could plug in all weekend (60 hours) and another 12-14 hours every night and 'get by' with the 110V charger for their daily commute, but I imagine that's a pretty small group.
It's that bad really? It's so much worse than the Bolt's? My buddy gets 4 miles/hr ... can't imagine the iPace is much less. Do the math, even if it's 3 miles/hr, it's enough for a 40 mile commute on a regular day!
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 01:04 AM
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Well I use my L1 chargers all the time when visiting friend who lives 50 miles from me. If I stay 12 hours I can get 36 to 50 mile range back depending on the car (Tesla being the worst in charge rate but I havent gotten my I Pace yet so cant say). Cars that allow drawing full 15 amp obviously do better also, some will only allow 12.

And it allows for weekend visits because essentially I can gain range while idle, without it I may have to take an ICE depending on initial charge.

And honestly I know a few people who would buy an electric car like the Bolt and with their weekly needs can easily stick to L1 charging at home. Their driving pattern means they could make up lost charge during the week on idle days where car stays home mostly.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-08-2019, 11:59 PM
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Due to Time of Use tariff windows, many people are better off charging at 7 kW in the TOU period.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-09-2019, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Due to Time of Use tariff windows, many people are better off charging at 7 kW in the TOU period.
Pennies

Most charging will still happen during cheap times if you plug it into the 110V after dinner or when you go to bed
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 07:40 AM
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Charging an I-Pace on a plain socket can have some damaging effects if done often and long enough at the same socket. There has been some issues with people simply using wall outlets to charge their EVs (any EV, not specifically the I-Pace) which has resulted in fires, etc so I do not charge in my garage until I get a proper charger setup which of couse is also a big investment. And obvously its incredibly slow as well so really not worth the cost of power for such little mile gainage, especially when the battery is below 80%.

In addition do remember that if fast charging a battery (any EV battery) the charge speed generally starts dropping once the battery gets around 80% charge. At this point its pointless to do fast charging as the speed can drop to a very slow speed, similar to what your normal socket will give you at certain points. That is of course if you are paying for charge by the minute like we do here on public stations in Norway. I have managed my I-Pace with just public charging until now and it is the only car we have for the family. We do not drive that much daily however but since the battery does hold a lot of charge we can manage at least for now. Tesla of course also is in this battery range, with the major advantage being the Tesla Supercharger network that they have. But in Europe we have a new Ionity network with 350kwh chargers being built in many countries which will also be like the Tesla Supercharger network but just not for Tesla but for all of the others with a CCS charger.

I personally think that Tesla will eventually open up their super chargers for other EVs as well, at least in certain countries. I cannot see Tesla being sustainable with their current business model in the long run and may use their supercharger stations to make extra profit from non-Tesla EVs as well. Just my personal opinion based on where I live (Norway) and what I hear about Tesla.

So to answer the original question that the main advantage Tesla has is their superchargers I would say yes, but at least in Europe that advantage is already being offset by a similar setup. Unfortunately im not to up to date with the state of the charging infrastructure in North America but am simply thinking that something like Ionity will also be happening there throughout many states sometime.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 08:08 AM
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Electrify America is one of the major fast charger (100-350kwH) networks already live in the U.S. It's worth checking out their map of existing and planned U.S. charging stations. While there is not one coming near my home (yet), I see one in each of the more distant Florida cities I visit (Tampa, Orlando, and Daytona) where access to a "fast fill-up" would be useful on an extended day trip. And we're only 1/2 month into 2019! I'm confident that with the growth of EVs, and the corresponding growth of charging stations (like those of Electrify America and others), in the future most of us will be laughing off the range/charging concerns we had when ordering our I-Pace. I, too, have speculated that Tesla may begin 'sharing' their supercharger network with other EVs for additional revenue, or eventually it may be overtaken by companies like Electrify America serving the entire EV population. It will be fun over the next quarter century to watch gas stations dry up (literally) while the charging network (and its myriad of vendors) slowly replaces it.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-10-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
Pennies

Most charging will still happen during cheap times if you plug it into the 110V after dinner or when you go to bed
You are located in a somewhat unique area for California, a subsidized non-TOU, non-EV region. The rest of this post is for people who live in EV Time-Of-Use (TOU) regions where they exist, both in the US and abroad.

Let's look at San Francisco. Charging at 2pm-9pm is .48-.33/kWh (summer/winter, PG&E, EV-A) and 11pm-7am is .12/kWh. This can mean a savings of about $500/yr for the average commuter to stay out of the high TOU times.


Sidebar -

The EV TOU Bonus!

There is an added bonus, which you can get as an EV owner. Switch to the EV TOU plan. Now, program everything you can (pool pump, washer, drier, dishwasher, etc) into the Super Off Peak late night window. For many people, this change will charge your car for free, an $1,100 a year savings.

Free money once you figure out how to access 240v power. It can be as simple as creating a 10 ga extension cord that feeds off two circuit breakers on opposite sides of the panel, or as expensive as heck. I do my own wiring (shock therapy), so it doesn't cost me much to rig 240v. I have four 240v outlets for EV/RV charging at home.

If you are worried about doing your own electrical work, some California utilities (SCE is one) are paying the costs of a professional L2 installation. But it must be a licensed contractor and have a permit pulled.

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Last edited by McRat; 01-10-2019 at 10:28 AM.
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