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Poor fuel efficiency isn’t a problem, until it is

26K views 59 replies 12 participants last post by  sciencegeek 
#1 ·
So I had to do a 650+ mile road trip today. I recently spent nearly $90,000 on a beautiful Jaguar. But because of its love of electricity, guess which car I got to spend 10 hours in today?
 

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#5 ·
If it could go 200 miles it would have worked without being too much slower. Drive 200 miles, charge for 45-60 minutes. Arrive with ~30%. Leave it on a destination charger for the 5 hours I was there. Drive 200 miles, charge for 45–60 minutes, arrive home with ~25%. Would have added less than 2 hours total, which turns long day a bit longer, but not unreasonably so.

Of course with a more robust DC charging network I could have done the trip, adding close to 4+ hours, doable, but much less palatable. Given the current infrastructure, it just wasn’t even possible.
 
#7 ·
Nope, read the previous reply. If I could get 200 miles, I could have used the car today , with the current, rather sparse charging network.

Granted, given it’s poor fuel economy, improved infrastructure would make it possible, but not palatable. I didn’t have the luxury of making it a 2 day drive.
 
#8 · (Edited)
My thoughts on the state of CCS level 3 charging is far behind the Tesla Supercharger network. (US)
This really makes road trip ideas a big challenge.
Electrify America is slowly adding some fast chargers, but has a long way to go.

The majority of other brands eg. ChargePoint have many AC level 2 chargers which is/was good for hybrids or
EVs with smaller batteries.

These AC chargers won't cut it when time is limited.
As you know I-Pace only has a 7 kW charger.
This makes any charging slow.

I think that even the DC fast charger at my local Jaguar dealer is only 24 kW.
 
#22 ·
My thoughts on the state of CCS level 3 charging is far behind the Tesla Supercharger network. (US)
This really makes road trip ideas a big challenge.
Electrify America is slowly adding some fast chargers, but has a long way to go.
I would hardly call it slow. They will have added 484 separate DC fast charging highway stations in the US by the end of Q2 2019--two years after they started. I'd dare say its by far the worlds fastest DC charging rollout in history. The next 7 months is going to be insane with progress.
 
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#10 ·
I'm optimistic that I will go on within-California road trips, including car camping in the desert or on the coast. Won't be doing 600 mile days but a 400 mile day will be just fine, it just adds one to two hours to the drive time. Seems to me that two things are important for your peace of mind: (1) Planning ahead and (2) Being mentally ready for some delay related to charging on the road. I've mapped out potential trips to cool places (camping or not) and they all seem totally doable.
 
#11 · (Edited)
With an EV, it's location, location, and location. We have multiple vehicles, but in all honesty, an EV with 200 miles of range should not delay any of our trips.

We are in the heart of Southern California. We are 100 miles from San Diego, 160 to Santa Barbara, 45 miles to the beach, 65 miles to snow skiing, and 240 to Las Vegas (with 2 CCS stations on the route).
We stop 1/2 way to Vegas anyhow for a restroom/food break especially if the traffic is bad.
So for our needs ICE, Hybrid, EV doesn't matter as long as 200 miles is doable.
Longer trips are always by jet.
 
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#13 ·
Hi All


For that reason I passed on my I Pace and got the F Pace S . First the leasing price was riduclious . They wanted over 1750.00 and I got the F pace for about half the price. The range on the F Pace is 450 miles and I don't have to worry about charging infrastructure. No one seems to know much about the car and that also scared me...they need to get their act together. Maybe next time.
 
#14 ·
There is no doubt the I Pace is a beautiful car and is perfect for some. But it certainly wasn’t the right choice for me. i was I’ll-prepared for all the sacrifices and compromises that are the norms of driving a BEV. It would be similar to putting a 3 gallon fuel tank on the F Pace and then make you fill up the tank using a turkey baster...
 
#20 ·
I have long desired an electric drive and did not even know it. First vehicle was a 1970 Mach I Mustang 4 speed. OK power but the shifting was annoying. Built up the motor and it was very fast for the day but becoming a handful to drive. Loved to use the torque to run the rpm up from idle to cruising speed in a single gear. Always annoyed me that so much energy was wasted on braking. Traded for an econobox for an decade. Economy was great but no real power. Then onto an F150 (still have it) and was a good tool for getting stuff done. Gearing and automatic left a lot to be desired. The swap from 3.55 to 4.10 gearing really helped but was just not there. Then onto a LEAF in 2011 and it was wonderful until the battery degraded way faster than expected. RAV4-EV (early Tesla drive unit) has been a big step up with more range and an excellent battery that holds up extremely well. The electric drive is just magical to me. Charging free at work is icing on the cake. I am anticipating I-Pace will be an absolute dream. But as you say not everyone cares including wife and daughter.
 
#30 ·
Well for me (I have BEVs and ICE) it is now STRANGE to stop at a gas station even for 5 minutes to "fill up" when I am so used to simply plugging my cars in at night or at work. Its all a matter of perspective and what you are used to. No I would not take a BEV on a road trip across America, and I sure as heck won't start up an ICE for a 10 minute drive and wear the parts when it doesn't come up to temperature.

Also I enjoy having the instant response, the quiet and the ride characteristics and having AC/heat on demand without starting the engine, and all the things that are positive about BEVs.

If you just focus on ONE THING then sure you can say one is superior to the other.

Also eventually with hydrogen fuel cells powering EVs there will be no need for a large heavy battery and it will take only 5 minutes to "fill up." Batteries, despite what Mr Musk says, are a transitory step in the rest of the world where they are investing in hydrogen infrastructure.

Sadly in the US we will stay stuck to burning fossil fuels because we do not invest in infrastructure anymore.
 
#31 ·
In most of the US, gas stations are for far more than gas. So yes, I stop at a gas station every day, sometimes several times a day, but only get gas every 10 days or so.

I would be the last person to proclaim one type of vehicle is superior. There is no such thing. Every vehicle has shortcomings and benefits and one just needs to be aware of them to make an informed choice.

I wanted a Tesla way back when, but at launch and several years faster it just wasn’t a viable option because of my need/desire to cover long distances quickly. As they improved the range of the cars I decided I could make it work (live with the limitations) as long as I could reliably travel ~250 miles. Then I drove them and was disappointed in the fit/finish- it just didn’t compare to what I was used to in MB/Audi/BMW.

Along came the I-Pace. Initially it was touted as meeting (or close enough) my self imposed limit of 250. Unfortunately for me, as the reality of the car came to fruition, it was clear 250 wasn’t realistic and like a guy getting caught up in the bidding at an auction, I convinced myself 200 miles would work...and here I am...as I have said repeatedly, it’s a beautiful car and will work wonderfully for many. I’m not that guy and others who love the car, but aren’t aware of the limitations deserve to know them.
 
#37 ·
Longest trip I make with any consistency is the ~215 miles to Tahoe from San Jose, a route that already has EA chargers open. However, I'm up for a promotion that would move me to Chicago and I do worry about the drive from Chicago to my family in Iowa which is 315 miles. That trip would be brutal in an I-Pace, especially in winter.
 
#40 ·
I picture a better "model" for the future would be most Fast Food places incorporating chargers. Be nice if you could stop and get a meal and charge up (at least 50%). Seems like it would be a win/win along the highway. Also, every movie theater and mall should have them (at least destination chargers). I would think that many businesses would benefit from having the ability to service the occupants of a "captured" vehicle for 30-60 minutes or more.
 
#44 ·
My brother and I said the same thing as we were waiting at the BK for my car to charge enough for me to make a run for home. I cannot see the downside in even spending the few thousand on a couple L2 chargers if you have a business close to the Intersate. For a place like a Walmart near the highway, why wouldn’t they put in a couple DC chargers?
 
#48 ·
You should visit the Tesla forum sometime:

Original post: "My side mirror isn't moving."

Reply: "You are a troll who is shorting TSLA! No Tesla side mirror has ever broken, ever. You need to be banned."
 
#49 ·
FYI - even the new Porsche Taycan and recently unveiled Audi E-Tron GT (based on the Porsche Taycan) have preliminary range estimates around 300 mi. max but just like Jaguar which had similar estimates based on the European efficiency testing; these estimates are always much lower in the US when the EPA does their testing and rates real-world EV driving ranges. I'm guessing the new Porsche & Audi EVs will realistically be in the same ballpark as the Jaguar I-Pace, Hyundai Kona, and Tesla models...so likely < 300 mi...probably more like 230-270mi. on a full charge.

We will have to wait until newer, more efficient, and lighter battery technologies emerge and are adopted in future EVs for better driving ranges in the 400+ mi. range. This may come to fruition by 2025.
 
#59 · (Edited)
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