Cold weather expectations? - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Cold weather expectations?

I imagine there will be some that say this is ‘normal’ and to be expected...but I don’t recall seeing anything warning me about it. Granted these were two very short trips, but in my recent experience with the horrible energy use mileage, I have to believe it could be extrapolated to a longer trip with not much difference in kWh/mile. That leaves me with a full charge range of 90 miles and winter is just getting started...it was 10F at 0020, the car was in a heated garage, plugged in with the worthless unit supplied by Jaguar (THAT is a just one more disappointment) with a departure time set for 0015. At 0715 the car had been parked outside since 0025, plugged in with the worthless Jaguar charger, with a departure time set for 0715. Has anyone else that lives in a cold climate have a better experience?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:00 AM
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[You need a better charger]
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:09 AM
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First you can not extrapolate from short trips to long ones, short trips get thrown off by other usage parameters. Also keep in mind estimates of range are just that, it is software based on "recent pattern" and varies. Different cars will give wildly different estimates. You have to get a sense by actually charging the car to full charge, then drive to empty with a solid patterns and then you will know.

Second none of the preconditioning info applies to the 110 charger. That charger can't probably even provide enough KW to warm the cabin without draining the battery depending on cold, much less precondition the battery if there is such a facility. It is unrealistic to think you can drive more than 10-20 miles a day with a level 1 charger realistically. The efficiency of our 110V power usage is low, so it is not a linear equation. You should get a Level 2 charger then test departure.

But you do have a valid point about better sharing of information. Early EV adopters were relatively knowledgeable, but as they become more mainstream EV sales people have to educate the buyer about EV unique aspects. ICE cars have the same kind of issues, its just that we take commonly for granted as "known" because they have been around for so long.

I am sorry that Jaguar or forums didn't warn you ahead of time, I can imagine it is a bit of a shock. But I will say as you get your hands around it you may find it is not as much of an issue as you may have thought. I learned that when I jumped into a Leaf with 70 mile range in summer and discovered vast majority of time that was more than enough (where before I got it I had assumed it would be very limiting).
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
[You need a better charger]
No ****...it was ordered, just hasn’t arrived yet, so all I have is the supples one which is worthless as far as I can tell, so why is it even included?
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by epirali View Post
First you can not extrapolate from short trips to long ones, short trips get thrown off by other usage parameters. Also keep in mind estimates of range are just that, it is software based on "recent pattern" and varies. Different cars will give wildly different estimates. You have to get a sense by actually charging the car to full charge, then drive to empty with a solid patterns and then you will know.

Second none of the preconditioning info applies to the 110 charger. That charger can't probably even provide enough KW to warm the cabin without draining the battery depending on cold, much less precondition the battery if there is such a facility. It is unrealistic to think you can drive more than 10-20 miles a day with a level 1 charger realistically. The efficiency of our 110V power usage is low, so it is not a linear equation. You should get a Level 2 charger then test departure.

But you do have a valid point about better sharing of information. Early EV adopters were relatively knowledgeable, but as they become more mainstream EV sales people have to educate the buyer about EV unique aspects. ICE cars have the same kind of issues, its just that we take commonly for granted as "known" because they have been around for so long.

I am sorry that Jaguar or forums didn't warn you ahead of time, I can imagine it is a bit of a shock. But I will say as you get your hands around it you may find it is not as much of an issue as you may have thought. I learned that when I jumped into a Leaf with 70 mile range in summer and discovered vast majority of time that was more than enough (where before I got it I had assumed it would be very limiting).
It was obvious to me even before I bought the car a 110 charger wouldn’t be good enough, but it is even worse than imagined and as you point out, is all but worthless, so why is it included? What function could it possibly be useful? Based on all the analytics I have on the car, starting at ~150 miles, this is right in line with my actual experience, so I think it extrapolates well based on actual performance history.

It will be a significant issue 2-3 times a month...which is 2-3 times a month more than I was prepared for.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:43 AM
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The combined battery heater and cabin heater for preconditioning could be close to 8 kW. That cord provides 1.2kW.

If relying on the included cord you should plan your average daily travels to be 30 miles max. Maybe less in the cold.
A few days might be more but then you will be playing catch-up near continuous.

You need an electrician at your home and locate some L3 DC charging in your area.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Time2Roll View Post
The combined battery heater and cabin heater for preconditioning could be close to 8 kW. That cord provides 1.2kW.

If relying on the included cord you should plan your average daily travels to be 30 miles max. Maybe less in the cold.
A few days might be more but then you will be playing catch-up near continuous.

You need an electrician at your home and locate some L3 DC charging in your area.
I don’t need an electrician, I have 50 amp outlets in both garages. Just waiting for the EVSE to arrive, should be tomorrow. Closest functional DC charger is currently 190 miles away. One was just installed 2 miles from my house, but still not turned on.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Time2Roll View Post
The combined battery heater and cabin heater for preconditioning could be close to 8 kW. That cord provides 1.2kW.

If relying on the included cord you should plan your average daily travels to be 30 miles max. Maybe less in the cold.
A few days might be more but then you will be playing catch-up near continuous.

You need an electrician at your home and locate some L3 DC charging in your area.
By the way, at my current state of charge, with my current charging access and temps in the low teens, I won’t expect to go more than about 10 miles round trip
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 12:09 PM
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Yes, 'horrible' range IS normal in a 10-degree winter.

If I had to drive in that kind of cold, I'd definitely use a gasoline car. Internal combustion is good in cold weather; electric is not.

Good luck!
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-13-2018, 12:16 PM
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The provided charger, if you lived in a country that had 220v standard, would provide you with a 3 KW charger which is quite useful. Here because of inefficiency it is a "nice to have." For example when I am somewhere visiting I will plug my car in overnight and I will regain anywhere from 30-50 mile range back, which is not nothing. But that depends on the setting of how much current the car draws, on the Bolt I can choose 8 or 12 amp, on the BMW it just has a Max/Med/Low because of wiring. It is really not meant for a full time charger, rather top off.

EVs are perfectly fine in cold (as demonstrated by their popularity in Norway), it is all a matter of max range needed for a daily trip in the worst case conditions. In fact one of the great advantages of an EV is in case you need heat you don't have to "run the engine" and the batteries of most will provide hours if not days of heating on a full charge. People who got caught in an ice storm in Atlanta one year discovered they ran out of gas and started getting cold while various EV drivers were inviting them into their cars that were still happily providing heat.

Or if you have pets you can just set the climate control to on without having to run the engine.

I wonder if Jaguar just hasn't quite gotten the preconditioning or battery management right yet, but this is all based on one data point.
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