My first fast-charge: Electrify America rocks! - Page 3 - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 08:20 PM
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EA isn't designed for cars charging at 80kW. It's designed for cars charging at 150, 320kw. It charges by the minute so becomes much more affordable that faster the car can charge. They're building the network for tomorrow, not today.
In some states only utilities can charge per kWh. Others must charge by the minute. In those states Tesla charges one per minute rate if the charge rate is over 60kW and 50% of that if it is under 60kW.

In other states like California the provider has the choice of charging either per kWh or per minute. At least thus far EA has chosen to charge per minute everywhere, and the same rate regardless of whether you are connected to a 150kW feed or a 350kW feed. I expect that to change once there are more EA stations live and more EVs using them.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 12:19 AM
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In some states only utilities can charge per kWh. Others must charge by the minute. In those states Tesla charges one per minute rate if the charge rate is over 60kW and 50% of that if it is under 60kW.

In other states like California the provider has the choice of charging either per kWh or per minute. At least thus far EA has chosen to charge per minute everywhere, and the same rate regardless of whether you are connected to a 150kW feed or a 350kW feed. I expect that to change once there are more EA stations live and more EVs using them.
I also think its by design to charge per minute. They want to discourage slow charging cars from using them as they will take more time to charge.

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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 07:19 AM
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I also think its by design to charge per minute. They want to discourage slow charging cars from using them as they will take more time to charge.
Certainly makes sense with Tesla Superchargers, at least from Tesla's viewpoint. You get half the charge rate once another car pulls up to the other supercharger sharing your feed. That gets Tesla double the revenue at no additional cost to them.
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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 01:19 PM
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First long trip requiring charge stops from Orlando to Ft. Lauderdale

Had an opportunity to drive from the Orlando, FL area to Fort Lauderdale, FL. There was enough time to allow for charging mishaps along the way. Definitely ran into one.
The total one way distance was 202 miles. I had a full charge (100%) with an estimate 217 mile range based upon my normal heavier highway usage in my daily commute.

Since I'd be driving between 75 and 85 mph along the way, I didn't expect to get 200 miles on the charge and planned for a mid-point stop in Vero Beach where there is a 50Kw EVgo charger named "Antonio". Was planning to just add 30 to 50 miles of charge to get me comfortably to Ft. Lauderdale. Didn't work out as planned. The fast EVgo charger never got past the "Communicating with Vehicle" stage. Called customer service and they tried resetting the charging station. I've used EVgo a couple of times in other locations with no problem. So I drove the car to the nearest Jaguar dealer (Treasure Coast Jaguar), where they gave me enough charge to comfortably finish the trip to Ft. Lauderdale.

While in Ft. Lauderdale, I found another 50Kw EVgo charger and was able to bring the car up to 50% charge for some local driving. Before the final trip back, I charged the car to 80% or about 180 miles. I had planned to stop and try Vero Beach again, but had a plan B and plan C location just in case. Got to Vero Beach, and same problem. EVgo 50kw charger "Antonio" could not complete the communicating with vehicle. So I'm sitting there with an estimate 27 miles on the GOM and two options that were about 30 miles away. Decided to back track to the Jaguar dealer again. They charged me up enough, after 90 minutes to finish the trip back home. Got to the Jaguar dealer with 1 mile on the GOM.

For me, this was a science experiment to understand my options on the longer drives. For my wife, it was high anxiety. Learned a couple of things.
1) Navigation system found fewer charging stations than Plugshare. Plugshare really seems to be my go-to as there are a number of different charge providers.
2) On this route, there were a number of Tesla Superchargers, but only one active 50Kw+ charger that was operational. There are two 150kw expected to go in from Electrify America, but nothing useful yet. For the next 6 months to a year, Tesla wins via charging.
3) Even chargers on the same network might not work. I suspect that Antonio was a newer charger and perhaps different software version. If an update for the I-Pace does anything for the charging system, I plan a trip back to see Antonio in Vero Beach.
4) Treasure Coast Jaguar was great. They even offered to wash the car before I left the second time. However, they have very little experience with the I-Pace. The dealer didn't show up on Plugshare or the Navigation system. I just looked up Jaguar to see if any were near. The Jaguar dealer doesn't have their Chargers publicly accessible like they do a the Nissan dealer that was next door, which may be why they didn't show on Plugshare.
5) Lastly, my wife doesn't want to join me on the next science experiment. I'll need to make sure the route has adequate stations in advance, otherwise, we take the RAV4

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Sbingham60, I'm heading to Orlando again this weekend - 260 mi round trip from Sarasota - this time with the whole family. Hyatt Regency next door has Level 2 charging, but my fallback will be those *fantastic* EA stations 7 mi away at the Florida Mall! No science experiment for me. I'll gladly pay the EA kwH premium for reliability and speed... and shouldn't get much spousal pushback given that, unlike a Jag dealer, the mall has food and shopping.
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 01:56 AM
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Certainly makes sense with Tesla Superchargers, at least from Tesla's viewpoint. You get half the charge rate once another car pulls up to the other supercharger sharing your feed. That gets Tesla double the revenue at no additional cost to them.
It doesn't work that way:

- The car originally charging at the pair gets whatever they need until they finish. The 2nd car gets whatever is left over. Once the first car leaves the 2nd car now gets whatever they need. This paired sharing is eliminated with the V3 Supercharger architecture

- If your charging rate is less than 60kW then you pay half as much per minute which seems fair
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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 07:51 AM
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Sbingham60, I'm heading to Orlando again this weekend - 260 mi round trip from Sarasota - this time with the whole family. Hyatt Regency next door has Level 2 charging, but my fallback will be those *fantastic* EA stations 7 mi away at the Florida Mall! No science experiment for me. I'll gladly pay the EA kwH premium for reliability and speed... and shouldn't get much spousal pushback given that, unlike a Jag dealer, the mall has food and shopping.
Yes, charging at a mall would have eased the tension. If my round trip south had been 230 miles, there also would not have been a problem. The 400+ roundtrip was the test.

I've used the chargers at the Florida Mall also and find they work well. Hope we get more locations along the major routes in Florida soon.

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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 03-26-2019, 07:58 AM
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Heard back from EVgo customer support last night. I had sent them details about chargers that worked and the one that did not. They replied that they will repair "Antonio" and it should be fine soon. There appear to be two different 50kw charger models in Central and South Florida for EVGo.
- The ones that worked for the I-Pace are ABB Terra 53 CHAdeMO and CCS
- Antonio, the one that didn't work is BTC EVFC / CHAdeMO and CCS Combo

There is another BTC model in Lakeland that I'll try out in a couple of weeks. It's within a 70 mile distance, so if it doesn't work, the round trip won't be a problem. I'll just recharge at home. Mostly I'm interested in seeing if there is a problem with a specific model or if the problem was just a coincidence.

All the EVGo fast charges in the Orlando area are the ABB Terra 53.

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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 10:34 AM
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I thought I'd add to this informational thread and post the results a short experiment I ran this morning. Most of the DC chargers I see in Texas are only 50kw, so here's a short test I did trying to understand charge times on those before an upcoming road trip.

This was using a ChargePoint 50kw DC charger. The car was at 128 miles range when I started. I tracked miles instead of percentage since the result is more directly applicable to driving range in my head. I thought to start closely tracking times after a few minutes just as the car reported hitting 134 miles during the initial charge.

134 to 154 miles: 10.5 minutes (1.9 miles per minute)
154 to 174 miles: 10.5 minutes (1.9 miles per minute)
174 to 194 miles: 13.5 minutes and slowing quickly (1.5 miles per minute)

Looking at the time as a whole, I added 71 miles in 40 minutes for a rate of ~1.7 miles per minute on average.

The charge graph from ChargePoint is attached, the last drop at the end is from when I stopped the charge.

As expected, up to 80% the charge rate was pretty steady and started dropping off after that. The bottom line is that it looks like if I'm low on charge, then I can expect a charge rate of almost 2 miles per minute at a 50kw DC fast charged up until I hit 80% or so.
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 12:06 PM
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There is an internet video comparing the charge rate of the 150kW large battery Model 3 vs the 120kW large battery Model 3. It's not much of a difference.
For a 45 minute CCS2 charge, the 84kW I-Pace adds 58.x kWh, and the 150kW M3 adds 60 kWh.

So the differences aren't as much as the numbers would imply.

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