Problems with the concept of "Auto Pilot" - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
 7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 322
Problems with the concept of "Auto Pilot"

I have always been skeptical of the idea that we can build fully automated driving cars (and I know quite a bit about the underlying technologies). I am not talking about driver assistance, lane hold, warning, auto brake, etc. I am talking about this over-hyped "auto pilot" idea. The main culprit pushing this lie is obviously Elon Musk. But my skepticism isn't just about Tesla, its an idea that captures everyones imagination but its simply not an option yet. It's just that Tesla pushing this narrative (just like his false assertions about hydrogen fuel cells) is counter productive.

This is an interesting article if you are interested.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/03...divider-again/
epirali is online now  
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 02:13 PM
Senior Member
 
Mister Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247
Tesla Announces It Is Not Testing Autonomous Cars In California

Tesla keeps autonomous driving test program opaque, says no testing on California public roads

Quote:
Originally Posted by eperali
I am talking about this over-hyped "auto pilot" idea. The main culprit pushing this lie is obviously Elon Musk.
I can agree that Musk is lying, and he may have been the earliest, but at this point Tesla is way behind GM Cruise and Waymo. Right now I see Mary Barra as the main pusher. She's been pushing her three zeros mantra for a while. She wants her robotaxi. It's seen as a potential money hose for GM.

They're pushing at NHTSA now:

GM's driverless car petition to NHTSA enters public comment phase

And they're ramping up further.

GM is doubling the staff for its self-driving car business

Their best so far is supercruise in Cadillacs which hasn't helped anyone commit techno-suicide yet AFAIK. Edmunds did a good comparison here.


Do I care? Yeah, if I have to share the road with them. I'll take the Supercruise. Tesla autopilot? No way. It nearly crashed the Edmunds guy. He saved himself. Thankfully he wasn't on his phone, or playing Jenga.


Tesla does not encourage what you see here. ^^^ But you could argue that they enable it.
epirali likes this.
Mister Dave is online now  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 322
Thanks that is part of my concern. The more conservative super cruise is more in line with reality and doesn't "encourage" bad behaviour, while Tesla's language, Musks hyperbole and what it "allows" does.
epirali is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Mister Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247
Right, but Supercruise doesn't work anywhere. It only works where Cadillac has geomapped the roads.

The biggest/best safety feature of Supercruise is that the wheel watches your eyes. Take up a game of Jenga, or hop into the passenger's seat and it shuts you down because it sees that you're not watching the road.

The Tesla will also stop the car if your hand isn't on the wheel periodically (you can argue too late to be of much help) but you can always use a water bottle to fool it.

Mister Dave is online now  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 03:47 PM
Senior Member
 
Mister Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247
Back to the original topic, I see a few things that will throttle it.

First is that LIDAR will still have issues with fog and snow, and a lack of road lines that are more common than anyone wants to admit. With geomapping they might get by the snow and lines problem, but in fog it's still semi-blind.

Second, there will probably never be a level 5 autonomous car. Mary Barra may be okay with that since the robotaxi can certainly be a money hose within city limits, at lower speeds. But it's unlikely to see highway speeds.

Third, machines will never be able to anticipate other drivers no matter how 'smart' they are. This is a matter of experience and learning that a machine can't and never will be capable of at the level humans are. That's not to say all humans are great at it, but the worst of us are still better than the best machine.

The autonomous car for the everyman won't happen in my lifetime. It's hard enough to afford an EV for most folks right now, much less a car with all that expensive tech attached. That's why Barra wants her robotaxi. It has to earn a regular income to be profitable.
epirali likes this.
Mister Dave is online now  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 63
I think I disagree here. A friend brought over his Tesla Model 3 today and we went out and played around with the ‘Autopilot by Navigation’ function and it is so good it is scary. Scary in a good way. While it had to ask your permission to change lanes (probably from a liability point of view) we drove for quite a while and it changed lanes, exited the highway and merged into traffic with no assistance from me. Yes you are correct—it isn’t available now, but man—it is so close I can taste it.

I also agree that it would be difficult from an infrastructure point of view, but what if they just geo-mapped or sensor embedded or painted lines with radio-active waste or whatever they come up with, just in those dense commuting corridors that suck out our collective will to live? What if they said by for instance, 2030, if you want to put your car on HWY ‘X’ it will have to have certain Level 5 sensors etc. I wouldn’t mind manually driving to the highway but then I would be perfectly happy to let the robots take over for the mind-numbing commute many of us do daily.

I for one eagerly await our new robot overlords.
Timbo is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Mister Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247
Autonomous level 2 Camera fails, including at the site of the Mountainview death:


Another example of following a line to the left at 5 seconds in:


Not looking to keep debating Tesla. Frankly after 5+ years I'm sick of the subject. But these videos demonstrate how level 2 camera-based lane keeping can fail. The car did follow a line - the wrong one.

Before anyone suggests that cities and such should be made to keep the lines painted, I have this image to share.



Navigate that. And then there are these:

Mister Dave is online now  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 09:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Mister Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Illinois
Posts: 247
For clarity:

epirali likes this.
Mister Dave is online now  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 10:00 PM
Senior Member
 
McRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Norco, California, USA
Posts: 916
I like the level of Driver Assist features that the I-Pace offers. I am the primary driver, and the DA warns me if I'm making a mistake and keeps me centered in the lane. So I can look far ahead, and the car will keep me centered in the lane or warn me if I depart. It's very relaxing.

Yesterday, I saw people hitting their brakes about 1/4 mile ahead in the #1 lane of the freeway. So I knew something was up, most likely a stalled car or debris. I eased up on the following distance, hit my flashers and soon debris flew from under the car in front of me. A broken fiberglass ladder was in the lane. I went into the emergency lane and drove around it. It's not something that is that unusual. It happens perhaps every 3,000 miles of freeway driving. If I were letting the car act as primary driver, it lacks the ability to see up to 2 miles ahead and decode it. It's rare to go 100% on my brakes on the street.

I'm not sure how Cadillac, Tesla, Nissan, or Jaguar would handle that if left to it's own devices. But I predict it would fk up your car and possibly leave you stranded.

But I will admit: Everybody who uses a cellphone in traffic should have the car as the primary driver. It is amazing that we know distracted driving, especially cellphones, is increasing the accident rate, yet we as a species demand that our cars allow this behavior.

Jaguar i-Pace FE Photon Red 20" wheels, "Leaper"
Two Chevrolet Volts in service
24.2 kW x 480v 3ph solar array self-installed.
McRat is online now  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-22-2019, 10:05 PM
Senior Member
 
McRat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Norco, California, USA
Posts: 916
This thread requires this image by law:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	12986931_10154186445718619_3321575943757194747_n.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	22.0 KB
ID:	1537  
epirali and gbillcb like this.

Jaguar i-Pace FE Photon Red 20" wheels, "Leaper"
Two Chevrolet Volts in service
24.2 kW x 480v 3ph solar array self-installed.
McRat is online now  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jaguar I-Pace Debuts as an All-Electric Crossover Concept That Actually Looks Cool Administrator 2018+ Jaguar I-Pace EV 400 News 1 03-06-2018 08:45 AM
Jaguar I-Pace Took Home 2017's Most Significant Concept Vehicle Award Jaguar I-Pace News 2018+ Jaguar I-Pace EV 400 News 4 08-09-2017 09:59 AM
Most Significant Concept Vehicle of 2017 PinkJaguar 2018+ Jaguar I-Pace EV 400 General Discussion 0 08-01-2017 11:46 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome