I Pace Driving Charging & Mile Discrepancies - Mike Mas - Page 2 - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 11:25 PM
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I try to compare my Tesla S with my Ipace energy consumption. IPace consumes 40kwh /100mi where as my Tesla S consumes 34kwh/100mi with the weather around 45 degrees. After the latest software update, I saw 260 miles for the first charge and after that it was always between 218 and 225 displayed on GOM for full charge. I don't trust GOM displayed numbers.
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 11:26 PM
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How many times are we going to discuss this problem on both the U.K. and U.S. forum? You have a problem somewhere in the battery or battery management system. Contact your dealer as multiple members have recommended. We can't fix your car here.
No need to get snippy [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/images/I-PaceForum/smilies/tango_face_wink.png[/IMG]. Problems like this allow us to explore different aspects of the car, software and which parameters are accurate and which are not and how they are related.
I'm not snippy, lol, that's a gross understatement. What I'm totally angry about is that this specific owner has reported this specific problem in multiple threads on 2 different forums and not taken steps to get the car fixed. Many, many members have been kind and tried to convince him that a problem exists and he rejects the advice. I had a friend who bitterly complained about his wife every morning for a year but refused to make a change. I had to tell him to take his complaints elsewhere if he didn't want to take action.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 11:29 PM
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How many times are we going to discuss this problem on both the U.K. and U.S. forum? You have a problem somewhere in the battery or battery management system. Contact your dealer as multiple members have recommended. We can't fix your car here.
Thanks for the reply Curt but rest assured nobody is asking you or anyone to fix my car, there's nothing broken.

I basically wanted to share an accurate good temperature low speed test where instead of relying on speculation, instrumentation, gauges, GOM's or journey counters, I would instead simply drive the car 50 miles in ideal conditions then just filled the tank again to determine the EV's true mileage. It's now clear the cars remaining mileage and percentage of charge (SOC) and information are incorrect.

Here's some real facts - when I divide my 52 miles by the 21kw needed to fill the battery, it averages 2.47 miles per kw or 207 miles for a 84 kw pack - this is average mileage for the I Pace. Therefore, nothing is broke other than I-Pace's time-keeping of instrumentation and gauges. In addition, the I-Pace's processor is also sending incorrect information to Wattcat, causing it to be incorrect as well to show me I added 30 kw when in fact it was only 21kw.

Is this starting to make sense to you now?

Enjoy - Mike
Your conclusions are incorrect and I won't comment anymore. There's an old saying that you can't argue with st***.
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-13-2020, 11:46 PM
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Mike, if the 19 kWh that actually got into the car with your level 2 charger is 36% of your battery capacity then your battery is only 19kWh/0.36 = 53kWh. HTH
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 08:01 AM
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Thanks for the reply Curt but rest assured nobody is asking you or anyone to fix my car, there's nothing broken.

I basically wanted to share an accurate good temperature low speed test where instead of relying on speculation, instrumentation, gauges, GOM's or journey counters, I would instead simply drive the car 50 miles in ideal conditions then just filled the tank again to determine the EV's true mileage. It's now clear the cars remaining mileage and percentage of charge (SOC) and information are incorrect.

Here's some real facts - when I divide my 52 miles by the 21kw needed to fill the battery, it averages 2.47 miles per kw or 207 miles for a 84 kw pack - this is average mileage for the I Pace. Therefore, nothing is broke other than I-Pace's time-keeping of instrumentation and gauges. In addition, the I-Pace's processor is also sending incorrect information to Wattcat, causing it to be incorrect as well to show me I added 30 kw when in fact it was only 21kw.

Is this starting to make sense to you now?

Enjoy - Mike
You are inserting an assumption into your analysis and I think this is why you may be missing our point. You have some measured values:

1: The car travelled 52km.
2: The battery state of charge changed from 100% to 64%, so a change of 34%.
3: You refilled with 21kWh reported by your charger (ignoring charge losses).

From this, you calculate that your consumption was 2.47 m/kWh. so far so good.

NOW, if you ASSUME a good battery, then 2.47 m/kWh * 84kWh = 207m, so that suggests the consumption is probably right, but it says NOTHING about your battery health since you are assuming 84kWh. All that can tell you in consumption is about right.

Look at another result of your measurement. 54m consumed 34% of your battery, You can use this to estimate your battery consumption. IF your battery were indeed 84kWh, then 54m should have only consumed 25%, NOT 34%. from your own 34% measurement, 21kWh/34% = 61.7 kWh, below the assumed 84kWh. Something is not right with your battery or the measured data.

The next test would be to drive a longer trip. If you battery is good, you should be able to get 207m, or close. If your battery is having issues, then you will get closer to 152m. Drive that (or a little less so you don't get stuck) and then look at the miles driven and the charge level. That test will be conclusive.
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 09:21 AM
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@rcomeau : You hit the nail on the head, but you switched to 54 miles about halfway through and used km at the start. I assume you meant 52 miles throughout the entire post.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Mike, if the 19 kWh that actually got into the car with your level 2 charger is 36% of your battery capacity then your battery is only 19kWh/0.36 = 53kWh. HTH

I respectably disagree - Having been working with lithium powered military drone aircraft since the early 90's, I can assure you that lithium cells don't just quit or disappear in numbers. In addition, a car with only 2000 miles would not degrade the health either. If 20-30% of the cells were bad as you said the processor would would error out and the pack could neither be used nor charged.



Regards -Mike
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 10:13 AM
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I respectably disagree - Having been working with lithium powered military drone aircraft since the early 90's, I can assure you that lithium cells don't just quit or disappear in numbers. In addition, a car with only 2000 miles would not degrade the health either. If 20-30% of the cells were bad as you said the processor would would error out and the pack could neither be used nor charged.



Regards -Mike
Mike - some other members have had modules fail and required replacements. There are 36 modules in the HV Battery. The individual cells may be fine, but modules have failed. I think that is the point. It took a while for some to prove this was the case. Sciencegeek posted this thread - https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/47...tive-work.html
Early on, JLR was replacing the entire pack. the workshop manual has been updated with instructions to diagnose and replace individual modules.

You can compare your findings and of course we'd like to continue to see your reporting on discrepancies which are useful to the forum. This being the first EV for JLR, I would expect lots of surprises.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 11:19 AM
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Mike, if the 19 kWh that actually got into the car with your level 2 charger is 36% of your battery capacity then your battery is only 19kWh/0.36 = 53kWh. HTH

I respectably disagree - Having been working with lithium powered military drone aircraft since the early 90's, I can assure you that lithium cells don't just quit or disappear in numbers. In addition, a car with only 2000 miles would not degrade the health either. If 20-30% of the cells were bad as you said the processor would would error out and the pack could neither be used nor charged.



Regards -Mike
You may not agree, but the math can’t lie. We are either missing something or a module has failed. Certainly this is not normal degradation but something is not right with your pack. Experience with drones and batteries can’t compete with real measurements. Military equipment is built to a different standard than consumer goods. Other owners have had packs fail exactly as you are observing so it cannot be discounted unless something else that explains what you are seeing comes to light.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 02-14-2020, 11:42 AM
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I respectably disagree - Having been working with lithium powered military drone aircraft since the early 90's, I can assure you that lithium cells don't just quit or disappear in numbers. In addition, a car with only 2000 miles would not degrade the health either. If 20-30% of the cells were bad as you said the processor would would error out and the pack could neither be used nor charged.

Regards -Mike
You can prove everyone wrong and give yourself peace of mind by taking the car on a 200 mile trip and see what happens. Even 180 or 190 will work. I double-dog-dare you.
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