Forget the rebates... IL first state to levy annual "tax" on EVs... - Page 5 - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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I laugh when I hear fables about humans not being part of the ecosystem.
How much CO2 do we create by slash and burn farming and deforestation for farms and housing? Because that's PERMANENT.

All humans could die tomorrow and there would still be higher CO2 levels due to our cities, homes, and farms replacing green vegetation.

Essentially, just like 1970, people who are alive today think we have too many people on earth, but are too hypocritical to kill themselves or sterilize themselves and whatever children they can. Heck the DNC wants abortions at birth, which is the ultimate sterilization program and would make NSDAP proud.
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 02:32 PM
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Heck the DNC wants abortions at birth, which is the ultimate sterilization program and would make NSDAP proud.
Modern eugenics is still alive in various forms, and getting support primarily from the left. That's well documented, even on PBS sites (which are wildly left).

Back on topic....

Follow the bill here:

Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB3233

Of importance is this section:

(625 ILCS 5/3-805) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 3-805)
Sec. 3-805. Electric vehicles.
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 04:43 PM
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Honestly some of the comments here must be satire because I refuse to believe that they are serious. If they are real beliefs I am deeply concerned. I do realize how much our true understanding of facts and knowledge has deteriorated but I guess I still have a hard time believing in the year 2019, in a time where we have so much science, technology and knowledge at our fingertips, that we still argue like we are cavemen just throwing around beliefs and not having any actual understanding of expertise and knowledge.

I go to neurosurgeon if I need brain surgery because my "opinion" is irrelevant and I DON'T know as much as a neurosurgeon with training and experience does. I go to an art history professor to learn about the history of art, my tastes and opinions do not equate to their years of education and study and deep understanding. I go to a scientist specializing in genetics to learn about the complex field of human genetics, I don't just listen to the opinion of any guy or gal because, you know, "I know what I know."

Are we really not able to actually respect and accept the vast field of human knowledge that are the direct results of years of work by so many people? Have we really become so arrogant that we just simply discard the amazing and vast accomplishments of science and education because we simply take political talking points as equal to the depth and breadth of what we really know.

It would be something to see a fact based conversation on topic. Not agreement, not blind acceptance, but basic distinction of fact and opinion, and ability to discuss rationally and honestly complex ideas.

Short of that we are really in trouble.

I am off my soap box now and will burn and smash it to bits.
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Honestly some of the comments here must be satire because I refuse to believe that they are serious. If they are real beliefs I am deeply concerned. I do realize how much our true understanding of facts and knowledge has deteriorated but I guess I still have a hard time believing in the year 2019, in a time where we have so much science, technology and knowledge at our fingertips, that we still argue like we are cavemen......
In 200 years we will look like cavemen to those people. In 500 years those people will look like cave men as we did.

What you might try to understand is that technology doesn't change what people are and do. Some people think the political rhetoric today is unprecedented. It's not.

Learn more about history and you'll appreciate how we haven't changed one bit.

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I go to neurosurgeon if I need brain surgery because my "opinion" is irrelevant and I DON'T know as much as a neurosurgeon with training and experience does.
Thankfully the neurosurgeon hasn't been corrupted by politics the way some other fields have been, or at least you'd better hope that's true if you really need one. But the way things are going you may have trouble finding ANY neurosurgeon.

Doctor Shortage: We May Need an Additional 90,000 Physicians by 2025

As I was having a back surgery in 2008 I was hearing from my surgeon about the decline of people in his field. He's well past retirement age by now. I'd better not burst another disc.

"Science" is not a blanket term that covers all sins.

P.S. Some comments are satire.
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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 05:26 PM
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Re: neurosurgery.....

Quote:
In the United States, approximately 40,000 people were lobotomized. In England, 17,000 lobotomies were performed, and the three Nordic countries of Finland, Norway, and Sweden had a combined figure of approximately 9,300 lobotomies. Scandinavian hospitals lobotomized 2.5 times as many people per capita as hospitals in the US. Sweden lobotomized at least 4,500 people between 1944 and 1966, mainly women. This figure includes young children. In Norway, there were 2,005 known lobotomies. In Denmark, there were 4,500 known lobotomies. In Japan, the majority of lobotomies were performed on children with behavior problems. The Soviet Union banned the practice in 1950 on moral grounds, and Japan and Germany soon followed suit. By the late 1970s, the practice of lobotomy had generally ceased, although it continued as late as the 1980s in France
It was the latest in behavior modification in its time (used well into the 1980s). Be very careful where and how you place your trust, and how advanced you think you are or your "science" is. The more you learn about the workings of science the more you'll understand why it's not a thing to have any faith in. If you have a brain tumor, you take a gamble that a guy with a knife will help you more than he hurts you. But that's what it is - a gamble.

I took a gamble with my back and came out okay. It didn't stop me from asking the surgeon "How many people have you crippled?" prior to the operation. My wife was shocked that I would ask such a thing. He wasn't shocked or offended. He appreciated that I was asking the right questions. Put that in your medical science pipe and smoke it.

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post #46 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 05:46 PM
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If you constantly focus on the dead trees you don't see the growing forest.

I applaud your critical thinking and asking tough questions but it's really better to focus on the totality of the evidence instead of focusing on individual failures of "the system".

Individual scientific studies have flaws. I have published papers that have errors in them. Every scientist has. But science is a collaborative and internally-checking pursuit, so in the end the truth prevails. Scientific inquiry is the only way known to humankind to arrive at the truth. We don't have a god who hands down facts, knowledge, and insight on a stone tablet. God didn't tell us that the earth revolves around the sun and (s)he didn't come up with the molecular mechanism for how penicillin works. Science did.
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post #47 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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God didn't tell us that the earth revolves around the sun and (s)he didn't come up with the molecular mechanism for how penicillin works. Science did.
It’s worth noting most of these scientific breakthroughs came from individuals who eschewed the ‘consensus’ thought and bucked conventional wisdom, often times at great cost to themselves
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post #48 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:11 PM
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I applaud your critical thinking and asking tough questions but it's really better to focus on the totality of the evidence......
Is all the evidence in? Have you accepted that it is?

Who should tell me, or you where to focus? Government?

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Individual scientific studies have flaws. I have published papers that have errors in them. Every scientist has. But science is a collaborative and internally-checking pursuit, so in the end the truth prevails.
Have we reached that end? How would you know?

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Scientific inquiry is the only way known to humankind to arrive at the truth.
Prove that God exists. I believe he does. I can't prove it to you, but I'd like for you to know the truth about it.

And if you can prove it (or just believe it) tell me if you think he'd allow you to actually ruin his Earth.

Am I allowed to believe that or would someone like to malign me for having faith in something other than men and their so-called science?

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It’s worth noting most of these scientific breakthroughs came from individuals who eschewed the ‘consensus’ thought and bucked conventional wisdom, often times at great cost to themselves
Amen to that. They bucked the hubris of others and moved the ball forward under great duress. Some of the biggest names through history in fact.

See any of that duress today? I'm pretty sure I do.
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post #49 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:39 PM
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If you constantly focus on the dead trees you don't see the growing forest.
So I might guess that you think I'm anti-science from that remark. Would that be the case, or would you like to elaborate on that?

I should be fair about it. I think you might be surprised at the truth about that.

And while I'm dishing out questions, have I given any real evidence about my position on AGW? See I don't call it "climate change" any more than I call abortion "women's health". It's Anthropogenic Global Warming, or maybe not, but call it by name if you're going to discuss it properly.
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post #50 of 62 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 09:31 PM
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It’s worth noting most of these scientific breakthroughs came from individuals who eschewed the ‘consensus’ thought and bucked conventional wisdom, often times at great cost to themselves
Amen to that. They bucked the hubris of others and moved the ball forward under great duress. Some of the biggest names through history in fact.

See any of that duress today? I'm pretty sure I do.
I’m betting there was more than a 97% consensus (although the claim of 97% is devoid of any scientific backing). In Copernicus’ the one that he was wrong

In 1515, a Polish priest named Nicolaus Copernicus proposed that the Earth was a planet like Venus or Saturn, and that all planets circled the Sun. Afraid of criticism (some scholars think Copernicus was more concerned about scientific shortcomings of his theories than he was about the Church’s disapproval), he did not publish his theory until 1543, shortly before his death. The theory gathered few followers, and for a time, some of those who did give credence to the idea faced charges of heresy. Italian scientist Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for teaching, among other heretical ideas, Copernicus’ heliocentric view of the Universe.
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