Range on Ipace vs Model S - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Range on Ipace vs Model S

Can someone explain why the Model S with its standard battery of 75kW is rated for longer distance at 259miles vs I pace with its 90kW battery rated at a 240mile range?

My only guess would be weight and wind resistance but the Model S is just 15lbs lighter and has just a 0.05 lower drag coefficient. This does not seem to be enough to have the S go farther on a smaller battery.

Unless Telsa just has a superior battery. Or maybe Ipace consumes more electricity in it's operating systems.

I guess the range is just an estimate but I would think Jaguar would publish a higher estimate than Model S...after all Jaguar is spending a boat load on marketing this car.
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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 05:44 PM
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I likewise have a question about the range of 240 miles for a 90 kW battery.
It will be very interesting to see some real world numbers as new I-Pace owners
begin to report their driving range and watts/mile consumption.
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 05:51 PM
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From the US brochure for the i-Pace:

Range* - Up to 240 miles.

* Figures shown are Manufacturer's driving estimates. Actual mileage may vary. EPA estimates not available at time of publication. See your local authorized Jaguar Retailer for updated EPA estimates.

Copyright 2018.

The Model S will have lower aero drag at higher speeds. However, this isn't that critical at speeds under 60 mph.
But it uses less efficient induction motors, where the i-Pace uses PM motors.

Note the i-Pace 90kWh battery is 84.7kWh usable. The rest is buffer for regen and storage at low charge.


It will be interesting to see where this all comes out at. No EPA filing yet. The Chevrolet Bolt EV was advertised at 200+ miles of range. Before retail sales began, the EPA numbers were released. It was 238 miles. Shortly afterwards, Chevrolet took several journalists and let them drive the Bolt EV down the coast of California. The trip was 240 miles door to door. All the cars made it. The journalists were not required to drive the cars in any certain fashion. One reporter ended up with close to 50 miles left. A well known Tesla Blogger Bjorn Nyland, was invited to drive a Bolt EV in Korea. He had 3 people in the car and luggage, and it was close to 300 miles.

The new World Standard is the WLTP test. Jaguar officially lists it as 480km (or 298 miles). The old NEDC standard was so exaggerated as to be useless.

My guess? For normal drivers, not in a hurry, on highways at 65 mph, we will see 270 miles or higher. But what fun would that be? I think Jaguar used the 240 mile number because they anticipated the reporters to have a 'heavy foot', and yes, one magazine took one on a road trip and found the 125 mph top speed limiter. So by 'de-rating' the preliminary numbers, they avoided a "Jaguar exaggerated" headline. Tesla never let the press do such things. Especially not take one on a racetrack or in the dirt, or on the Autobahn.
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Jaguar i-Pace FE Photon Red 20" wheels, "Leaper"
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-08-2018, 11:06 PM Thread Starter
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Well I am sure someone on the buy side of the industry transaction will eventually come up with a standardized range evaluation. As for now the numbers are all over the place due to variables such as weight, drag, battery, driving conditions, and driver dynamics.

But I think it was a mistake by Jaguar marketing to put out a lower estimated range on a higher battery against the Tesla.
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-09-2018, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Well I am sure someone on the buy side of the industry transaction will eventually come up with a standardized range evaluation. As for now the numbers are all over the place due to variables such as weight, drag, battery, driving conditions, and driver dynamics.

But I think it was a mistake by Jaguar marketing to put out a lower estimated range on a higher battery against the Tesla.
The Tesla does not do well in stop and go driving, hence few people get anywhere near the EPA range in urban areas. And they don't want you to charge it all the way up, only 80%. The realistic range for MS75D is about 200 miles before charging.

The i-Pace has a bigger buffer and different chemistry. It could be like the Bolt, and it normally charges to 100%. So the realistic range will be EPA range in the i-Pace if that is the case. PM motors do well in stop and go driving unlike the induction motors.

Jaguar i-Pace FE Photon Red 20" wheels, "Leaper"
Two Chevrolet Volts in service
24.2 kW x 480v 3ph solar array self-installed.
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-09-2018, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
Well I am sure someone on the buy side of the industry transaction will eventually come up with a standardized range evaluation. As for now the numbers are all over the place due to variables such as weight, drag, battery, driving conditions, and driver dynamics.

But I think it was a mistake by Jaguar marketing to put out a lower estimated range on a higher battery against the Tesla.
Do note though that the i-Pace is targeting Model X buyers. The MX75D has 237 miles of EPA range. Coincidence? I think not.

When equipped the same, the i-Pace is always less money than the Tesla MS or MX. But the i-Pace comes with more features.

But the auto industry is SUV/CUV crazy right now. You aren't trying to compete to with sedans, you want to beat the competition's SUV/CUV.

Jaguar i-Pace FE Photon Red 20" wheels, "Leaper"
Two Chevrolet Volts in service
24.2 kW x 480v 3ph solar array self-installed.
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-09-2018, 06:33 PM
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The only correct answer right now is that you're comparing a mfr's conservative estimate with an EPA rating, which are not apples and apples numbers. Wait until the EPA provides the I-Pace number before worrying about this.
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-10-2018, 09:12 PM
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According to Giles Lenthall, I-Pace Product Manager:

The range on a single charge is 480 km.

This would put it at 298 miles.

Much more attractive than the 240 miles being floated around.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Now 298 miles makes more sense...Can we just round up to 300 miles? It is an estimate after all.

With 100kWh model X at 295 and 100kWh model S at 335...300 seems to be where it should be with a well designed efficient car.

Now the real test is if I can make the 280 miles from LA to Vegas on a single charge....could be a nail-biter...probably going to need the wind at my back, driving speed limit, no luggage and no traffic!
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-11-2018, 05:15 AM
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Now the real test is if I can make the 280 miles from LA to Vegas on a single charge....could be a nail-biter...probably going to need the wind at my back, driving speed limit, no luggage and no traffic!
That's the real challenge because they not only built these as EV's but as a way to redefine what the automobile is. So people will want to use all they can while they can. Planning for areas you can charge, even if a little, will go a long way.
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