EV driver for 7 years now - Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-22-2018, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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EV driver for 7 years now

Hello!

Just joined. I bought my 2012 Chevy Volt in September of 2011, and have been sold on electric driving ever since. I have been very happy with my Volt. The I-Pace looks like a perfect replacement.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:01 PM
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Welcome!

Glad to have someone on the forum with EV experience as that does go a long way into getting valuable feedback.
As much as I seen first time EV buyers rag on current EV's, the ones with experience under their belt don't complain as much
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:27 PM
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Welcome to the forum! What Jaguar has accomplished in their electric crossover/SUV is pretty incredible, especially at its price point. I saw that Chevy managed to cut the charge times nearly in half on the 2019 Volt.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 01:38 PM
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I too have EV experience. I had a 2015 Leaf. Can’t wait to be back in a EV.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-24-2018, 02:50 PM
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Model S for 3 years and 50,000 miles. Can't wait to get another EV. Either a used X100D or a new iPace... or Model Y.
Have to see them both to compare before I pick one.

I'll never buy another gas car again though!

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-25-2018, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.XAU View Post
As much as I seen first time EV buyers rag on current EV's, the ones with experience under their belt don't complain as much
Snap. Tesla Model-S driver for 2+ years, 27K miles p.a., and I hugely prefer driving it to ICE (but no other EV experience to compare against).

Disappointed by Tesla Back Office - long delay I can cope with, but not support-staff saying "Parts will be here tomorrow" - if their systems don't know arrival time of parts, even if not-yet-manufactured, to the minute then in this day-and-age they should do. Long waits for service (6 weeks), repeated attempts to fix some minor issues failed (cold feet, static on radio). I could forgive them the growing pains if their systems meant that they actually knew the WHEN part as I could then plan for the delay.

But ...

EV inherently less maintenance and thus more reliable (although all the Gizmos increase chance of failure, but many of those any spanner-wielder can fix)

Supercharger network is how the rest needs to be: "Plug-in, walk-away". In UK 3rd party charging is a joke - looking on Plugshare for CCS (50 kW max, so far) in my area there are 25 or so, which should be plenty, but: 50% of them have a report of "Failed to charge" fault reported in the last 4 weeks and typically only one, maybe two, pumps per location so chance of wait high, and time-to-wait likely long (a 20 Stall supercharger with average dwell-time of 20 minutes is going to change at one-a-minute). My 3rd party charges are relatively few, so a small sample size, but 40-50% of those have required a phone call to initiate (even though I have the APP), and 20% have failed to charge at all (pump broken, phone-call unable to initiate charge). Many have taken more than 5-10 minutes to connect / disconnect - I would have got 30 miles at a Supercharger in that interval! It can only get better though ...

OTA updates. I have had numerous new "improvements" in the 2 years of ownership - improvements to AEB (ability to detect the car two-in-front is braking), Summon, Auto-Park, massive improvements to AutoPilot (Version 1 on my car), "Chill" driving mode, Graphic Equaliser changes from 3-slider to 5-slider, better maps and SatNav (not once was I offered the option to upgrade SatNav in all the VW cars I have ever owned - not even for money!), and so on. And SWAG for referring new buyers

I think the Jag looks great - both in flesh and on paper, and battery size is good.

Negatives for me are:
  • lack of widespread CCS rollout as yet (which of course won't be a problem for significant number of drivers who don't do more than 200 miles in a day)
  • the charge-rate
  • lack of good real-world wH/mile figures at speeds between 50 and 80 MPH, and data on Taper. (I suspect that Telsa scores much better on these, but maybe not? More efficient motors than Model-S/X and heat-pump may have better range in Winter, especially for stop./start "travelling salesman" which is a [Winter] killer for EV.)
  • lack of batteries to ramp-up. Huge opportunity for Jag being first-of-the-rest to market, but 20K units p.a. is going to miss the boat (and disappoint many wannabees)

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I'll never buy another gas car again though!
+1
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2018, 11:02 AM
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Electromotive propulsion is a better technology for moving automotive vehicles.
  • Wake up with a 'full tank'
  • Quick cabin heating and cooling.
  • Instant throttle response at all speeds.
  • No effect due to high density altitude.
  • Fewer moving parts.
  • Physiological motivation for reduction in power use per mile.
  • Tailpipe emission free.
  • Solar power can allow you to generate your own gasoline. Home refineries aren't easily possible.
  • Little 'idle time' emissions.
  • When powered by fossil fuels, it uses less fuel per mile.
  • No engine warmup required.
  • More flexibility in chassis design.
  • Less prone to roll-over or loss of control due to low CG and fully digital stability control.
  • Longer brake life.
  • Can be run in a closed garage, or driving with hatchback open.
  • Can be fueled during surplus powerplant output at night.
  • Less time wasted refueling per 10,000 miles for most owners.
  • "Free fuel" can be found in some locations.
  • Partial throttle operation actually improves efficiency when piston engines (except diesel) get higher BSFC when the throttle is full open.
  • Less Noise Vibration and Harshness in vehicles of similar design.

There are downsides as well.
  • Higher powertrain costs.
  • Single speed transmissions are seldom efficient at higher speeds.
  • Limited areas with very high electric rates cost more per mile than gasoline in some area.
  • Higher weight for similar sized vehicles.
  • Vastly better remote refueling infrastructure.
  • Slower remote refueling infrastructure.
  • Less absolute range before refueling on similar designs.
  • Cold and Hot weather negatively affects battery storage ability.
  • Variety of models is still very poor for EVs compared to ICE variety.
  • Fewer high end optional equipment choices, such as massage seats and rear seat entertainment and all wheel steering.
Weighing the balance, I see EVs as the better luxury choice for the majority of car drivers. It's an easier vehicle to own and operate with superior locomotion traits.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2018, 11:21 AM
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In 2010 General Motors engineers made such a list themselves.

They decided it was worthwhile to address the downsides, so they released an Extended Range Electric Vehicle (EREV). These are vehicles that run purely on electricity until the traction battery is depleted, then a smaller gas engine acts as a generator.

The higher powertrain costs were somewhat offset by the smaller battery required (16 to 18.4 kWh depending on model year). Batteries were very expensive in 2010.
Using a planetary gear system and clutches with 2 electric motors, they ended up with a variable ratio EV design.
You can choose to run the car on electricity-only or use gasoline depending on price of fuel.
Weight was still a problem at first, but for 7.5 second 0-60 mph cars, the new weight of 3,500lb is not too far out of line.
Gasoline remote refueling still allows the car to operate as an efficient (>40mpg) hybrid if electric cost are too high.
Fast gas refueling when needed.
Hot and Cold extremes are handled well by the supplemental gas engine if required.
High density altitudes and partial throttle losses are attenuated by the assistance of the gas engine which operates at open throttle normally since it's a generator.
EREV tech can be put into anything from construction equipment to bicycles.
Cadillac released an EREV CT6 as a medium luxury car as have other companies. Night vision, rear dual HDTV, luxury materials, 360 view, privacy curtains, massage seats, etc.

But pragmatism is not always a big issue with car buyers, especially in the over $30,000 arena. EREVs are not big sellers.

Note the Prius Prime is only 'sort of' an EREV. It makes limited power in EV mode (0-60mph in 12.2 seconds), and when you floor it, unlike the Volt, the gas engine runs. Plus it has limited pure EV range.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2018, 12:31 PM
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Weighing the balance, I see EVs as the better luxury choice for the majority of car drivers. It's an easier vehicle to own and operate with superior locomotion traits.
Good list of pros and cons! I would add one more con: EVs are currently less reliable than ICEVs - at least that's been my experience, and I know I'm not alone. I expect that as EV models mature this will change, and EVs will become as reliable as ICEVs, and probably more. But until that happens, visits to the shop are still an impediment to EVs being 'easier to own'.

I also agree with your limitation of EV superiority to the 'luxury' market. EVs are great if you can afford them, but for the vast majority of the market those 'higher drivetrain costs' are prohibitive.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-26-2018, 01:34 PM
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Speaking of reliability... my S was 'in the shop' AT LEAST 4-6x a year. The 9 year old Tahoe I'm in now... hasn't had an issue in YEARS. it's almost boringly reliable. Tesla spent so much time reinventing the wheel stupid stuff would fail constantly. I'm looking at the stupid door handles! I HATE that jag copied them. Seriously. the door handles on my Tahoe are JUST FINE. they've never failed to door handle. I must have had at least 12 if not 16 door handles replaced under warranty. At 1k each or so.

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