Jaguar I-Pace EV400 Forum - View Single Post - I-Pace Test Drive
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 09-02-2018, 12:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Hrakso View Post
Why do you care if people buy a Tesla or an I-Pace?
I don't. We are a very Eco family, the sooner everyone has an EV the happier I will be.

Originally Posted by Hrakso View Post
I know you like to write, but I don't want a big discussion.
Tough Far too many people make decisions on far too little data. Well, that's my opinion anyway

Originally Posted by Hrakso View Post
I still feel that you believe/hope Tesla is better than I-Pace?
Actually I don't hope that its better. I have no strong feelings on that score. I am very (VERY) sceptical that a Brand new EV from established ICE company will be superb. Might have great coach building, or an amazing dealer network, but I think chances are high that there will be surprises on EV drive-train/efficiency/battery-degradation.

There are some things that are important to me - such as rapid charging - and some things that are not important - such as the Ultimate Fit & Finish. Other folk will have different prioritise of course. I rocked up on this forum for two reasons: #1 curious to see how Jag gets on, its good to see a worthy long-range contender (where is everyone else in this race?? Getting yet-another-concept-rollout ready I expect ... ) and #2: to impart knowledge I have gained from driving Tesla for 2 years and 50,000 miles insofar as that may be useful for people thinking of getting a Jag (and not having had the experience of EV ownership).; Reviews have been mostly incomplete. and this isn't just a face-lift on an existing, well understood, technology ... its a ground-up-start-again, so plenty to misunderstand (supplier, marketing people, and customer alike)

So my wandering thoughts are:

CCS long distance rapid-charging too immature at present, all 3rd-party charging (Type-2 and CHAdeMO) I have used has been dreadful, whereas Tesla supercharger experience has been uniformly excellent, Hopefully CCS will be as good once rolled out.

Not everyone needs rapid-charging though, but I use Superchargers on at least 2 days a month.

Personally I prefer the minimalist cabin of Tesla, and the lack of buttons. In part because I think it enables software updates which are not constrained by the physical layout of knobs and dials. But I expect many/most? people coming from conventional vehicles will prefer the Jag style. My Tesla has had lots of updates in two years, and new buttons have appeared for a number of things. Quite possible that during lifetime of my car voice-recognition will supplement "buttons" and might require a complete rethink on the user-interface.

wH/mile efficiency is important to me, to minimise my time on days when I am out-of-range, and maybe even to reduce the days when I have to charge; the 90 was the biggest battery when i bought, but if buying again now I would buy the 100 (or maybe long-range Model-3). If a longer range battery was available I would buy that - at around 300 miles real-world range I would probably only need to charge (on the road) once a year. My dream would be 350-400 mile range (affordable though please ).

In terms of Performance / Handling: I have the Performance model, but I rarely use it (although I had a non-P loaner when my car was in for service and it is noticeably less "sharp" to drive. Front-end much less precise than the P-model. Dunno why (and I'm no expert), possible more "push" from the larger rear P-motor, maybe better suspension geometry on the P). Sub 5-second acceleration is alarming for passengers if they are not concentrating (e.g. hopping out at a junction in a tight gap), and sub 4-second (i.e. in Performance mode) far more so. Sure, its absolutely wild to demo to your mates, but that is all done and dusted in the first few weeks of ownership

If I was buying again I would probably be tempted by the non-P models - particularly to get maximum range. All these EVs are "very quick", so the difference between THIS and THAT is tiny, and definitely not a deciding factor for me. From what I have read I expect that the Jag will drive better on country roads. I do some of that (I live in the Country) but most of the time I drive to nearest highway junction and then 90%+ of my driving is on highway at max legal speed (plus a bit ). So might well be that the better handling of the Jag would not really make any difference to me (given I'm mostly highway cruise driving).

For me Adaptive Cruise Control and Stay-in-Lane are critical elements. I have been very surprised by how much AutoPilot reduces fatigue on longer journeys. My best-guess is that Tesla is best-in-class for my requirements, but in, say, 6 months time that might change. I actually think that AP1 suits me better than AP2 (ability to read speed signs is important because we have variable speed limits on Motorway in UK and they are camera-enforced). AP2 definitely better in edge conditions (over crest and roads with no marking on verge-side), but I don't use AutoPilot on the local roads - other than to test it out to see how progress is getting on. On Highway AP1 does all that I require (perhaps until we get to FSD)

I haven't owned a car in this class / price bracket before (its affordable for me, just choose not to spend that much money on a car) and I don't get particularly excited by style/looks (in the way that people want some particular wheels on their car, for example), so I'm not a good candidate for "Choose Jag for better interior"

The Tech is a mixed blessing. My day-job is software development and I tend to hate most modern products because of the continuous change, and the bugs that rush-to-market brings, and the fact that nowadays most of those projects are run by Marketing rather than IT, and Marketing are far more interested in pixel-perfect design/layout than usability and QA testing. Tesla infotainment has been dreadful (based solely on my scoring scale!), but all the issues have been fixed in a later version (and some have reappeared in a subsequent version ... an indication of poor regression testing). I think that frequent updates is the age-old problem of confusing people; that's one thing when it happens on your phone, quite another when the first time you discover there is a change is in an emergency life-threatening situation. But I expect all automotive manufacturers will go down the over-the-air updates route (but only because "everyone else is doing it and Customer THINKS that they want it")

I very much doubt that any Marque coming new to the market, with their first "Tesla Killer EV", is going to have a really really good Battery management System. Even Nissan, after all these years of experience, is shocking - e.g. RapidGate. Tesla clearly have an excellent system; 10% battery degradation at 150,000 miles, and most of that happens early on, so degradation thereafter is very slight.

So for me to buy an EV which is not Tesla:

Need rapid charging network at least as good as Tesla Superchargers
Need a good battery management system
Need good rapid charging - i.e. Taper only above, say, 80% - or give me 300 mile range and then I don't care about Taper
Need good efficiency and Range (Jag not looking good, but I am hopeful there will be a software update to fix it)
Need Adaptive Cruise Control and Stay-in-Lane - i.e. at least as good as Autopilot (on highway), and able to read speed signs

Last edited by TeslaOwner; 09-02-2018 at 12:45 PM.
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